Mi-24P Hind - Page 78 - ED Forums


View Poll Results: For the Mi-24, you:
Strongly prefer Mi-24p 183 16.04%
Mildly prefer Mi-24P 52 4.56%
Don't care which model 557 48.82%
Mildly prefer Mi-24V 65 5.70%
Strongly prefer Mi-24V 284 24.89%
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Old 03-14-2017, 09:08 PM   #771
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Wow, great post, good knowledge.

I totally agree but especially wanted to highlight one aspect: APCs and MBT's in DCS are way too accurate in their aircraft targeting in general. There is no way in hell they would be capable of shooting down a fast moving A10 moving across their sights unless it was a lucky hit with saturation as mentioned. Many of them can't even traverse their turrets fast or far enough, or if it's some pintle mounted MG it's really hopeless. (spray and pray)

So anyway, yeah, would be nice to be able to use an A10 normally against tanks/apc's without their absolute super human aim. (same applies to using the rotary A/C against them)

Originally Posted by Fri13 View Post
Of course it is standard, but from the AA standpoint the standard is as well never to try to aim the target and estimate where it will be by everyone.
This is why the AA is done in layers, why there are spread from the AAA and they fire around the target.

You can't estimate anything, that isn't trying to hit you, you need to look and avoid the incoming fire that is just randomly coming at your direction, but not at you.

A single 23-2 is easy target as it is required to try to hit at you, but they do very short bursts and still fire at you, expecting you to do exactly those multi-axis maneuvers, and this way force you away from that airspace as you can't constantly correct your maneuvers as the next that you are about to do without knowing it, is by change going to be flying toward a burst of shells that isn't even yet fired randomly at your directio.

And that puts you to very high stress level as you can't look the tracers and then change direction, or expect that if you do course change every 2 seconds then the in-air shells are going to miss, because the gunner is already randomly going to fire at you, likely to direction where you are about to go evasive.

And when the stress level goes higher, reaction times lower, awareness gets lower and concentration becomes very difficult.

This basic AA tactic is the enemy of the pilots as they try to be multi-axis evasive so they try to evade something that is already around them.
And when you have multiple AAA, each one of them firing at different directions instead at you, you have no place where to evade, no change to "read" the tracers as your head is trained to "avoid avoid avoid".

Attachment 156002

The difference is very simple, there is a huge airspace around the helicopter. When the AAA is firing directly at you, trying to hit you. You have every other airspace safe space around your current position and the position where you would be with your heading and speed.
But when the AAA does it correctly, they will saturate every other space around you so you can not move, your safest place then is to stay still and not to maneuver. But as there is multiple AAA units (lets say 3-4) then one of them is going to saturate even your space.

And this is the problem with the AA that once you reveal yourself, you complete your task by forcing the enemy out from your airspace, you are very vulnerable because they can just simply seek the blind spot and pick one by one, or use longer distance and take you away without you being able to deny it.

And this is crucial why a AAA units are on the moving platforms so they can move to cover, conceal themselves or change the form so air threat situational awareness is denied.
And then comes the real serious problem, infantry that is fast to move and often carry MANPADS or something heavier. There are APC or IFV with larger caliber weapons than 7.62 and they can quickly sneak around you and start suppressing as well airspace around you.

The AAA primary purpose is not to destroy you, it is to deny your actions. And once you have revealed yourself to AA, they really concentrate to finally destroy you. But if they get you not completing your mission by denying your capability enter the airspace required to complete it, their mission is 100% success even if you fly to home safely with all weapons.

And the problem with DCS is that every unit is firing directly at you. You are a dot in air and everyone fires at that dot. At 1.5 or late 1.2.x version ED added more randomization with the patch that changed the MBT 7.62mm and 12.7mm accuracy so you could fly toward them. It was huge improvement because now you couldn't anymore just fly straight ahead and do slight maneuvers to throw AI to aim at your next point that became old.
It as well made easier for CAS pilots as now if attacking group of 4, everyone didn't directly aim at you, but everyone aimed off, you had more time to fly straight and get the hits and get off.

What ED needs to do is to really improve the AI behavior, where they will try to saturate the airspace, deny the maneuverability changes and then some would try to get direct hits.
And that way AA units create a "no-fly-zone" as no matter how great maneuvering you do, you can't anticipate something that isn't coming toward you but likely somewhere where you would want to change your heading.

The AI isn't just doing what it really should do. A BMP-2 is not capable to hit a air target moving parallel to it. Coming toward it and giving time to fire at the direction is possible.
As well you shouldn't try to aim and fire simultaneously as very likely you will never hit at the target as slight changes will move target away from the estimated interception point.
Instead you estimate the area where the target might be, aim there and shoot a burst without turning your turret. And this increase the changes that the target will fly to long line, instead one dot.
And now when you look AI firing in DCS, every unit is aiming continually at you and firing long bursts while tracking.

So otherway saying, the AAA task is to "cross the beams" and create first a loose cage around you (like 50-300m from you depending your maneuverability) and then randomly tighten and loosen it up.

The Mi-24P will have own difficulties at the direct approach as you just can not maneuver a lot in highs peed when flying toward the target.
While a slower speed and rotating stabilized turret makes possible to maneuver faster, do easy pop-ups and control the airspace.

Communicate with a another helicopter with datalinks and share the targeting information etc and it is totally another ballgame. So the Mi-24P doctrine of low flying, fast surprise attacks by low rotor noise and quick separation from target airspace, are totally different from like what a KA-50 or a AH-64 can do.
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Old 04-22-2017, 05:59 PM   #772
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Angry New and update

No news, no update...not even a picture relased on the project...
Is is not really dead ???
I hope not !!
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Old 04-22-2017, 08:58 PM   #773
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Originally Posted by Razorback View Post
No news, no update...not even a picture relased on the project...
Is is not really dead ???
I hope not !!
BST tend to only post updates on unreleased modules close to when they're going to be released.

We also know BST are working with ED on the F/A-18 currently...so probably to forget about it for 6-12 months at the very least.
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Old 04-29-2017, 02:19 AM   #774
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"Any plans for an Mi-24?"
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Old 04-29-2017, 09:20 PM   #775
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Originally Posted by Pocket Sized View Post
"Any plans for an Mi-24?"
Belsimtek next helo is a instant buy for me

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Old 04-30-2017, 06:33 AM   #776
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Originally Posted by Pocket Sized View Post
"Any plans for an Mi-24?"
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Old 05-02-2017, 09:25 AM   #777
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Originally Posted by Pocket Sized View Post
"Any plans for an Mi-24?"
Where you got this?
I don't understand anything in russian except Davai Davai!
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Old 05-02-2017, 10:00 AM   #778
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Originally Posted by Stratos View Post
Where you got this?
Comment under this video :

MiG-21Bis, Fw-190D, Bf-109K, P-51D, F-86F, Ka-50, UH-1H, Mi-8MTV2, Hawk T1A, C-101, FC3, A-10C, CA, Mirage 2000C, Gazelle, L-39, MiG-15Bis, F-5E, AJS 37 Viggen, Yak-52, Christen Eagle II

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Community A-4E and MB-339 mods

MiG-23, MiG-27, Jaguar, Su-24M2, F-111, A-6E, A-7E&D, Ju-88A4, Ju-87G2&D5,F-4E,Mirage F-1, Mi-28N, Extra 300,J-7,MiG-25, Battle of Britain era British and German aircraft, A6M5 Zero, Fw-190F8, Super Tucano,Su-17.
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Old 05-02-2017, 12:47 PM   #779
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What says that the "PilotMi8" has any authority on the matter? Might it not just be some random dude?
Or is he a known dev/tester?


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Old 05-02-2017, 12:54 PM   #780
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Originally Posted by Jarlerus View Post
What says that the "PilotMi8" has any authority on the matter? Might it not just be some random dude?
Or is he a known dev/tester?

PilotMi8 is Belsimtek's lead developer.

With that said, he didn't say anything we didn't already know.
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