Viper AGM-65 basics

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=2753338708278664&id=441639040340

It's been a long wait, but better late than never.

https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=182015

Remember, the AGM-65A/B was an anti-tank weapon. It was useless against bridge abutments or ships or aircraft shelters. Its sole advantage over a MK-82 was the greater likelihood of actually hitting a tank. Now think about what the prevailing weather would have been in Central Europe or Korea during a major tank invasion. The ceiling would have probably been around 2000' AGL, and the vis would have been less than 5 miles. Add in dense forests, tall buildings, dense urban areas, smoke, dust, haze, and rain. Now imagine trying to pick out a camouflaged tank operating in that environment. At 5 miles a tank is less than one mil size to the naked eye. The AGM-65A/B centroid tracker could not see a target that size, much less keep a lock during launch transients. You didn't want to waste your precious Maverick on a Red Army food truck serving borscht to Ivan, and you could not distinguish the many trucks from the few tanks at 5 miles. Realistically, the max range that you could acquire and lock up a tank was probably about 18,000' slant range, and min range was probably around 5,000' slant range.

 

When I shot my AGM-65B at Nellis in 1986, we were very familiar with the area, we had INS coordinates for the target tank column, the tanks were dark green against a bright yellow desert background, and the weather was CAVU, there was no smoke, and nobody was shooting at us. As I recall, I started trying to lock up my target (last tank in the column) at about 12,000' slant range, and drove in to almost minimum range before getting a solid lock at around 5,000' range. (The missile hit the tank.)

http://www.f-16.net/forum/viewtopic.php?p=365176&sid=1fb46264e7fad44ade76ef5f7237a144#p365176

18 000 ft = 5500 metres

12 000 ft = 3600 metres

10 000 ft = 3000 metres

5000 ft = 1500 metres

I’m glad they’re adding seeker bore sighting for realism, but I wouldn’t mind if this was a special option that we can enable or disable, sometimes I find it a bit tedious. Besides, do Mavericks lock onto anything but vehicles in DCS currently? Would make it hard to boresight.

I’m glad they’re adding seeker bore sighting for realism, but I wouldn’t mind if this was a special option that we can enable or disable, sometimes I find it a bit tedious. Besides, do Mavericks lock onto anything but vehicles in DCS currently? Would make it hard to boresight.

They lock on to buildings as well currently.

Why did he arm the laser?

Why did he arm the laser?

As was asked in a comment:

Why did the plane call out altitude as the weapon hit the target at 12:37 ? (

as can be clearly seen later the altitude warning was set to 5000ft.

I’m glad they’re adding seeker bore sighting for realism, but I wouldn’t mind if this was a special option that we can enable or disable, sometimes I find it a bit tedious. Besides, do Mavericks lock onto anything but vehicles in DCS currently? Would make it hard to boresight.

They don't lock on dead vehicles .. so you can differentiate between dead and alive O_o

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I wonder what they mean by "dual targeting" not being implemented, yet. Do they mean MSL STEP and then assigning different targets to different missiles to shoot two or more in one pass?

Overall an impressive overview. The following are notes, observations, additional info, and a few corrections.

• 3:33 - The three basic modes, PRE VIS and BORE is correct. It's perhaps best to think of TGP handoff as not really any of these modes but an alternative "shortcut" logic that bypasses the normal PRE or VIS logic. It is perhaps most useful to think of there being five modes of delivery PRE without TGP handoff, PRE with TGP handoff, VIS without TGP handoff, VIS with TGP handoff, and BORE. BORE is most closely related to PRE to the point where you can think of it as PRE without slaving.
  
• 3:30 - I don't know if "RDY" should ever appear next to OSB 6 on SMS and certainly not without power supplied to the missile.
  
• 3:40 - A helpful shortcut between PRE VIS BORE is the enable button on the throttle (rotary selection).
  
• 3:50 - Automatic powering is useful for pre-planned strikes especially low level. Powering does two things: prepares the gyroscopes and the imaging seeker. IIR (D & G) take longer. The three minute timer is sufficient to spin and cool any missile. The USAF OFP will automatically supply video from the seeker at the end of this time. In some variants uncage button toggle video from OPER and STBY. Additionally it will blow any physical cover off (rarely used) provided master is armed. Countries without automatic physical cover removal require pilot uncage press to blow covers. Early uncage can be accomplished by manually pressing uncage on the throttle and is useful in times when the missile was on previously and spin and cool times will be less than 3 min. If missile isn't cool yet the image will be washed out and if it's not spinning can result in the seeker not being stable in direction. Excessive on time should be avoided as it degrades (overheats) the missile and is >30-60 min depending on if video is OPER or STBY.
  
• 4:25 - "Ripple" technically "Release Pulses" the same as SMS for MK-82 or similar bombs but meaning the same thing. However the statement that dual launch isn't possible because of LAU-117 is false. Either LAU-117 or LAU-88A on paired stations (e.g. 3/7) can dual launch Mavericks. It is not possible to dual launch Mavericks any other way (e.g. two from the same LAU-88A on one side). I don't know if the missiles have to exactly match (e.g. AGM-65D and H mixed) but two of the same will work. Yes this is a one-button-two-missile launch. There will be two Maverick LOS circles on the HUD with a "1" and "2" on top respectively. With TGP automatic handoff dual launches are difficult and this is normally reserved for one-pass-haul-booty type strikes. Pressing WR requires up to two seconds to ensure both missile launch.
  
• 5:00 - A helpful shortcut to step to next Maverick is priority sequence is missile step on the stick. Stepping to the next missile on a LAU-88A requires pressing the STEP mnemonic on the WPN MFD format and is used to reject a malfunctioning missile.
  
• 6:30 - An interesting note is that the TGP will manage both the WPN FOV and polarity remotely to match the TGP. E.g. if you change TGP polarity, Maverick will change to match and the same when changing between wide and narrow FOV. Matching FOV and polarity is a necessity to facilitate handoff as the process involves video scene comparison. The situation shown where the polarities do no match is not realistic.
  
• 7:00 - Useful to note that G and K Mavericks do area track but also can do centroid track like D and H when called for. An interesting note is that the D or the H (I forget) can area track in the DCS A-10C while apparently not in F-16.
  
• 8:30 - Manual handoff is basically no handoff and reverts functionality to PRE (or VIS) without automatic handoff or as if TGP wasn't carried.
  
• 10:45 - Automatic handoff is triggered every time point track is commanded on the TGP. This makes multiple tracks quite rapid as the pilot only has to point track, wait for handoff and repeat. The second point track will attempt to handoff the second missile (pilot missile steps over before commanding next point track). Incomplete handoffs are denoted by squares (same as normal 10mr box but without central dot) on the HUD and completed are circles. Targets inside MLE get bottom ticks. "1" and "2" labels are used when there is more than one missile active at a time. Missile stepping is possible after handoff and is useful for verifying both missiles' videos before launch for parameters, intended target, etc.
  
• 11:45 - WPN format saying "WPN OFF" after firing the last missile of that type is right? I dunno.
  
• 13:00 - VIS commands FCR to AGR normally. It works very much like DTOS for bombs. HUD SOI TMS aft rejects the designation and returns box to FPM (preferred name for VV in F-16). SOI transition from HUD to WPN is automatic when pressing TMS forward a second time after the first which designated the box onto the ground.
  
• 13:10 - Being able to move the BORE cross on the HUD is not a capability I'm familiar with. HUD SOI slewing moves the TD box and not the cross. In other F-16s of the era the bore cross is fixed on the HUD and merely a visual reference for initial aiming. Pressing TMS forward with HUD SOI in EO BORE results in WPN SOI. There is an EO BORE cross representing either left or right missile stations is slightly offset to that side. BORE also has the ASL like PRE. It's essentially a degraded PRE mode without missile LOS slaving.
  
• XX:XX - FOV changing while missile is tracking will break missile track.
  
• XX:XX - "LAR" is known official as Missile Launch Envelope with regards to AGM-65 but otherwise same concept. This data is provided to reflect kinematic range and prefers FCR AGR for slant range. Otherwise less accurate sensors and assumptions are are used and this can be wildly different than the actual range along missile LOS for example in EO BORE with target steerpoint not at target location. It's also blanked when target is beyond 30 degrees of missile bore, no track, out of range.
  
• XX:XX - The pointing cross flashes to indicate marginal tracking by the missile and is a requirement that it be solid before launch is recommended.
  
• XX:XX - The step button on the SMS page steps through missiles on the same LAU-88. Changing stations requires pressing the stick missile step button.
  
• HMCS EO VIS delivery is similar to non helmet cued but requires TMS forward long to "stick" the box from FPM to the helmet LOS.
  

Noticed there was no range information on either the HUD or the MAV Screen on Wags' second attack run...

Correct or did something get overlooked in development?

Why did he arm the laser?

For TGP laser ranging, something that appears to not be functional at this time.

Noticed there was no range information on either the HUD or the MAV Screen on Wags' second attack run...

 

Correct or did something get overlooked in development?

The range is in the lower right corner of the HUD.

What do you mean? It is top left?!

 

And rather than showing references from the other sim, use real pictures/videos. Plenty of those available on the internet.

 

Looking forward. Thanks ED.

Correct as it is my mistake I did not view it ...maybe could be al little larger *

and I mention another sim since for MAV it is the most accurate so far as a reference for MAV modes and functions.

also I post a screenshot from RL manual.

p.s when the station selected it is better to have a filled white box and dark number symbol in order to view the number clearly, now the 7 or 3 number for the selected wpn station conflict with the selection box and it is not so readable.

keep walking ED.

What I'm more interested to know are what HOTAS implementations for the Maverick are coming with this patch.

Well we won’t find out till the 23rd now.

Noticed there was no range information on either the HUD or the MAV Screen on Wags' second attack run...

 

Correct or did something get overlooked in development?

MLE isn't displayed in BORE mode as no sensor is used to measure range. BORE does not change SPI or move any sensors, which is both a feature and a limitation.

In PRE and VIS either FCR AGR or TGP laser ranging is used depending on which sensor designated the point.

Well we won’t find out till the 23rd now.

Where did they post that?

Where did they post that?

Same place they always do:

For OB Only, no?

MLE isn't displayed in BORE mode as no sensor is used to measure range. BORE does not change SPI or move any sensors, which is both a feature and a limitation.

 

In PRE and VIS either FCR AGR or TGP laser ranging is used depending on which sensor designated the point.

Makes sense. Thanks...

The range is in the lower right corner of the HUD.

But that’s “only” range to the original steerpoint.

Same place they always do:

I guess I misread it. The date at the top says May. I honestly thought there was an update this week. So, I'm a bit confused.

Thanks for the info.

PRE and BORE both use GM/GMT/SEA radar modes by default. I don't know if AGR is even selectable in PRE and BORE. VIS selects AGR by default and I think you can change away from it but ranging suffers. Note that AGR in EO VIS ranges through the HUD box not the missile LOS so if one designates VIS and then slews away info remains to initial designation point.

There is definitely a risk of bad MLE data with PRE so why designers chose to omit MLE in BORE but leave it in for PRE is an interesting question. Documentation says that MLE display depends on "SLAVE postdesignate entered" which might mean that manually switching SOI and slewing WPN page directly won't show MLE in any mode. If that's true then only designating (HUD in VIS or FCR/TGP in PRE) which automatically moves SOI enables MLE. BORE doesn't have a postdesignate condition because there's no such thing as designating in BORE.

AGM-65H Force correlate

Hello,

in AGM-65 video, Wags said that only G and K have the force correlate mode.

But the DCS A-10C manual inn page 353, state that all Maverick versions except 65D have force correlate mode.

So actually in the simulator you can fire an 65H with the A-10C in force correlate mode.

I guess I misread it. The date at the top says May. I honestly thought there was an update this week. So, I'm a bit confused.

 

Thanks for the info.

In the link Elysian Angel posted they edit in the planed date of release of patches. Thats why it(post) was created in may but last edited today, thats than they edited the OB patch date from tomorrow to next week, they probably found something that needs to be fixed first. That thread/post should be your/our number one goto place if you/we want to know something about a patch date.

In the link Elysian Angel posted they edit in the planed date of release of patches. Thats why it(post) was created in may but last edited today, thats than they edited the OB patch date from tomorrow to next week, they probably found something that needs to be fixed first. That thread/post should be your/our number one goto place if you/we want to know something about a patch date.

Got it. Thank you my friend!