Invisible Tiger!

The title says it. So many times I fly the MiG-21 on the ACG_Tiger_vs_Fishbed server and we still have the very same old annoying issue with the F-5. It blends somehow into the terrain/background and becomes invisible especially after a merge when you start turning into the dogfight. It simply disappears and you're completely lost! At first I thought it was only me but when many players confirmed it and still do; having different systems, graphic cards etc. So I thought I might post this thread here so maybe you guys can look into it unless it's a DCS issue.

About a year ago same issue with almost every module on DCS - general problem - so maybe it is a DCS issue after all. Now being it only the F-5 this time made me post the thread here first.

Cheers!

Use labels if you can. DCS has weird visibility. The other option is to wait for them to fix the visibility, but it may take a few years.

Sent from my SC-04E using Tapatalk

Same happens for me when fighting MiG-21's and M2K's, so it's not just an issue with the F-5.

At some angles i loose them completely if I'm not zoomed all the way in at the right moment.

The only solution right now is to really pay attention and remember that the other guy probably has the same problem.

AFAIK ED is working on a solution and something was already done in the Normandy alpha map that should help.

There is a video around in the visibility discussion thread.

Same happens for me when fighting MiG-21's and M2K's, so it's not just an issue with the F-5.

At some angles i loose them completely if I'm not zoomed all the way in at the right moment.

The only solution right now is to really pay attention and remember that the other guy probably has the same problem.

AFAIK ED is working on a solution and something was already done in the Normandy alpha map that should help.

There is a video around in the visibility discussion thread.

Can you link that thread for me please?

Sounds like I need to buy the Tiger...:devil_2:

Here you go:

https://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=3126356&postcount=530

I fly on mentioned server quite often in F5.

But I really don't think F5 is that hard to see.. It often happens that i can see the plane but can't ID it, so I approach it as if it was enemy. Sometimes the confusion is on the both sides and suddenly you are dogfighting with your team mate until one of you realizes your mistake and flashes his lights or something. I think you can see Tiger as well as Mig21 in dogfight, even better, you can identify it by bare metal paint.

You can lost Mig21 from your sight masked by underlying terrain just as well as the Tiger. Btw,, impostors are set to MEDIUM, you really should not have an issue to spot anything, i can see friendly F5s flying miles away.

Here are some tips i use to stay hidden:

1. Make sure you are not visible against the sky easily

Flying in 4000 or more feet over flat terrain you are very easy to spot by low flying planes from miles away on this server.

2. Fly in mountains/use hillside to cover your silhouette.

This works pretty well if you have hills on one side and flat terrain on the other. Fly no higher than the ridge of mountains and you are invisible yet you can see everything. You can fly in higher altitude and you are very hard to spot even from underneath.

3. Don't fly straight to bullseye.

On ACG cold war server I see a lot of times that people just try to fly very low, fast and straight to bullseye. First you are very easy target for even lower flying planes, second AWACS can see you anyway. Stay near to those mountains.

4. Don't fly over sea

Flying low over sea you can still be very easily spotted. You are much better masked when flying over ground.

Resolution can be an issue. I use 1920x1080 on 24" screen.

I fly on mentioned server quite often in F5.

 

But I really don't think F5 is that hard to see.. It often happens that i can see the plane but can't ID it, so I approach it as if it was enemy. Sometimes the confusion is on the both sides and suddenly you are dogfighting with your team mate until one of you realizes your mistake and flashes his lights or something. I think you can see Tiger as well as Mig21 in dogfight, even better, you can identify it by bare metal paint.

 

You can lost Mig21 from your sight masked by underlying terrain just as well as the Tiger. Btw,, impostors are set to MEDIUM, you really should not have an issue to spot anything, i can see friendly F5s flying miles away.

 

Here are some tips i use to stay hidden:

 

1. Make sure you are not visible against the sky easily

Flying in 4000 or more feet over flat terrain you are very easy to spot by low flying planes from miles away on this server.

2. Fly in mountains/use hillside to cover your silhouette.

This works pretty well if you have hills on one side and flat terrain on the other. Fly no higher than the ridge of mountains and you are invisible yet you can see everything. You can fly in higher altitude and you are very hard to spot even from underneath.

3. Don't fly straight to bullseye.

On ACG cold war server I see a lot of times that people just try to fly very low, fast and straight to bullseye. First you are very easy target for even lower flying planes, second AWACS can see you anyway. Stay near to those mountains.

4. Don't fly over sea

Flying low over sea you can still be very easily spotted. You are much better masked when flying over ground.

 

Resolution can be an issue. I use 1920x1080 on 24" screen.

You think it's the same with the MiG-21. You think F-5's are easily spotted. And you think F-5's can be spotted due to their bare metal paint. The Point I'm making is that you don't fight against the F-5, you fly with it. Completely different. Besides it's not based on what you think (don't give me wrong, I'm not reprimanding you, my friend) but on what we know. Flying against the F-5 almost every day for at least 2-3 hours ever since it came out provides you at some Point with enough Feedback regarding any issues with it. So I'm saying this based on my and others' experience. Many MiG-21 pilots would confirm that. This is why I even felt compelled to post this in the first place knowing it's not only me or my Screen or my System etc. And I do have great Systems in my Computer.

Spotting in DCS is an old issue. That we know. The F-5 (again, according to me and many others) is the one module that's by far the hardest to spot.

Maybe I only hoped to make Belsimtek Aware of this (probably they are by now) if there is anything they can do about it. I hear the new graphic engine is quite promising in DCS 2.5. Well... can't wait :)

You think it's the same with the MiG-21. You think F-5's are easily spotted. And you think F-5's can be spotted due to their bare metal paint. The Point I'm making is that you don't fight against the F-5, you fly with it. Completely different. Besides it's not based on what you think (don't give me wrong, I'm not reprimanding you, my friend) but on what we know. Flying against the F-5 almost every day for at least 2-3 hours ever since it came out provides you at some Point with enough Feedback regarding any issues with it. So I'm saying this based on my and others' experience. Many MiG-21 pilots would confirm that. This is why I even felt compelled to post this in the first place knowing it's not only me or my Screen or my System etc. And I do have great Systems in my Computer.

 

Spotting in DCS is an old issue. That we know. The F-5 (again, according to me and many others) is the one module that's by far the hardest to spot.

 

Maybe I only hoped to make Belsimtek Aware of this (probably they are by now) if there is anything they can do about it. I hear the new graphic engine is quite promising in DCS 2.5. Well... can't wait :)

Well first you say it might be F5 problem, then you say it might be general DCS problem.

After all that I don't see your argument that I don't fly against F5s. Also i tried to explain you that i was in a "dogfight" multiple times with friendly F5 and nothing was different to dogfighting Mig21. You think I have never lost Mig21 out of my sight just because it went against the ground? It happens every day.

I agree spotting is difficult in DCS but again, I don't believe F5 is the problem. Also it was one of the characteristics of the plane that it is small and hard to spot (as you pointed out).

Point of my tips was to maybe make it easier for guys that have a hard time against F5s, not really something related to visibility.

And I can't stress this enough, impostors are set to MEDIUM, if you are losing targets this big, I think you just need to practice more. Other than that we just need to wait for 2.5 with hopefully better visibility.

 

And I can't stress this enough, impostors are set to MEDIUM, if you are losing targets this big, I think you just need to practice more. Other than that we just need to wait for 2.5 with hopefully better visibility.

Where are the impostors set to medium? Which server? Which mission?

Where are the impostors set to medium? Which server? Which mission?

I was talking about ACG Cold War server

I was talking about ACG Cold War server

Cool. I didn't know that. (I have the Mig21, but haven't yet taken it into multiplayer). Visibility being my main concern.

Imposters have been broken or changed drastically since their intial release. They no longer work as before and dont infulence visibility for most, if at all.

Your 1920x1080 resolution allows objects to be seen at a greater range than my 3440x1440 since they are more pixelated than mine and appear as blobs instead of dots.

Well first you say it might be F5 problem, then you say it might be general DCS problem.

 

After all that I don't see your argument that I don't fly against F5s. Also i tried to explain you that i was in a "dogfight" multiple times with friendly F5 and nothing was different to dogfighting Mig21. You think I have never lost Mig21 out of my sight just because it went against the ground? It happens every day.

 

I agree spotting is difficult in DCS but again, I don't believe F5 is the problem. Also it was one of the characteristics of the plane that it is small and hard to spot (as you pointed out).

 

Point of my tips was to maybe make it easier for guys that have a hard time against F5s, not really something related to visibility.

 

And I can't stress this enough, impostors are set to MEDIUM, if you are losing targets this big, I think you just need to practice more. Other than that we just need to wait for 2.5 with hopefully better visibility.

It is a general problem in DCS yes. Only the F-5 is the hardest to spot and invisible in most cases. That's what I said.

Been flying regularly for years in DCS so I dont think I need more hours so at some point I end up spotting things like never before. I've only started to experience this more significantly when the F-5 came out; hence the post regarding the F-5.

Then I pointed out the graphic engine in DCS 2.5 looks pretty good so I hope it would solve this problem.

The F-5 being so small and hard to spot is one thing. Becoming invisible when starting a turn for instance is something else.

So it's rather a DCS issue. Very likely. On the other hand scripting the scales and 3D views for the F-5 would be a Belsimtek issue if that'd be the case so it would only add up.

By the way, imposters don't work any more in DCS.

It is a general problem in DCS yes. Only the F-5 is the hardest to spot and invisible in most cases. That's what I said.

 

Been flying regularly for years in DCS so I dont think I need more hours so at some point I end up spotting things like never before. I've only started to experience this more significantly when the F-5 came out; hence the post regarding the F-5.

 

Then I pointed out the graphic engine in DCS 2.5 looks pretty good so I hope it would solve this problem.

 

The F-5 being so small and hard to spot is one thing. Becoming invisible when starting a turn for instance is something else.

 

So it's rather a DCS issue. Very likely. On the other hand scripting the scales and 3D views for the F-5 would be a Belsimtek issue if that'd be the case so it would only add up.

 

By the way, imposters don't work any more in DCS.

Thanks for the info about impostors guys, i would expect updates will fix and add things but i forgort this is dcs. Maybe we should have changelog for every broken thing each update as well so we can keep track of it....

I still disagree with "invisible" part, as I have never experienced such extreme visibility issue.

Imposters have been broken or changed drastically since their intial release. They no longer work as before and dont infulence visibility for most, if at all.

 

Impostors still work, they just need to be enabled through the editor. Most missions have them disabled and the in game settings don't really work. (If they are not enabled in the mission)

The F-5 was known for being notoriously hard to spot. Its slender side profile is both beautiful and a nightmare to fight against.

The livery used in the ACG server adds to this considerably ,in contrast to the migs liveries, but i guess it was a phenomenon observed with the real aircraft too so i don't know if anything should be done.

You should try to use awacs more and utilize zoom and boom attacks taking advantage of the migs higher speed or fly very low and fast hoping to see the enemy's shape against the horizon.

Neither the mig nor the f-5 have smokeless engines, looking for smoketrails also works very well.

The greek airforce had taken delivery of several f-5 in this light blue color,originally built for the iranian airforce i believe, that when weathered made them exceptionally hard to spot over the Aegean sea. The camouflage was later applied with success on f-4s.

Maybe a skin change in the ACG server could help a bit.

EDIT: BTW, didn't know they had imposters turned on. I guess it's not forced on everyone since i've never seen them.

The label mod that Burning Skies is using would solve all our problems in ACG.

The label mod that Burning Skies is using would solve all our problems in ACG.

What's that?

The label mod that Burning Skies is using would solve all our problems in ACG.

You mean this?

https://www.digitalcombatsimulator.com/en/files/270020/

I don't think that would solve the issue, isn't it supposed to make distant planes appear as a dot? I understand that people have issue losing F5 during close air combat.

You can definitely see F5 as a black dot from a long range on ACG server. Or does the mod also show the dot for airplanes close to you?

I don't recall the guys from Burning Skies mentioning that they uploaded the mod. But in their thread the said it was ok to take the mod from the .miz file. I use it on my SP actions. I don't thing that would be a problem for other servers to use a community solution.

I don't recall the guys from Burning Skies mentioning that they uploaded the mod. But in their thread the said it was ok to take the mod from the .miz file. I use it on my SP actions. I don't thing that would be a problem for other servers to use a community solution.

The issue was mainly spotting the F-5 the closer it gets to you ending in a dogfight. From a distance you can always see a dot if the pilot's flying over the horizon. I don't think this mod would change anything either.

It does in BS. It is a recommendation. But recently purchased the F-5 and Mig also disappear the same way I was blaming the F-5. You could try a different livery for the F-5 maybe it could help above same areas of the map.

It does in BS. It is a recommendation. But recently purchased the F-5 and Mig also disappear the same way I was blaming the F-5. You could try a different livery for the F-5 maybe it could help above same areas of the map.

Yeah, I've tested it the other way around with MiG-21. Hard to spot too but still visible in a turn. Besides the smoke trail of the MiG-21 is way more conspicuous.

Anyway, gathering some feedback here and there and talking to other players about these issues makes me conclude the following: Spotting generally in DCS is a problem as we all know. The F-5 is a small plane and in reality always hard to spot but having any plane disappearing is quite a different scenario. The late videos of the new graphic engine in DCS look very promising and as such raise the hope of having no/less problems any more with spotting air, ground units or anything else.