Which aircraft to choose

Hi, I am Sven and I am new here at this forum and have a question. I couldn't find a good place to post this question so I put it in here. I have flown flaming cliffs for some time now and flew Lomac in the early days. Have had much pleasure with it. But now I want to fly an aircraft with clickable cockpit. I know those kind of aircraft are much more complex to fly. At this moment I still can't choose between the Mirage 2000C, the A-10C and the Viggen. Important for me is which one of the three is the least complex to fly with, cause I think I will have a hard time to master such complex airplanes. Or: which one is the best to start with. Thanks in advance!

The A-10C has the most complex systems but is the easiest to actually fly

The Mirage is the simplest, systems wise and is a very capable fighter but if you want air to ground capability it will disappoint you

The Viggen is probably the most difficult to fly although quite easy with practice and is very capable in the air to ground role while having simple but... Unconventional... Systems.

I would actually recommend the Viggen since it can do air to air rather simply a well as being an excellent strike aircraft and is fun to fly and learn.

None of these aircraft are actually all that difficult to learn really though. If you put your mind to it the A-10C's systems will come together to for you sooner than you might expect

M2KC->Viggen->A-10C

"easy"->medium->hard

A-10C is a really nice striker, you'll like it, I'd go with the A-10C, MFCD, and lots of systems

Mirage is a bit multirole, but it's more used for A-A engagments, has a nice INS

Viggen is a nice aircraft but a bit tricky to fly and tricky to handle the computer but else, nice striker, just you can't stay as long in the ao as in the A-10C

This is my opinion

My vote goes for Mig21. Surprisingly, I enjoy it most for the A-G role although it is limited

The best thing you can do is watch some youtube videos for each aircraft. That will give you an idea for what it fits better to you. But we all know you are goin to buy em all in the long run

It really depends a lot on what you are actually looking for:

If you want a fast mover, the A-10 is not for you. If you want A/G, the Mirage comes last. For A/A on the other hand it's the obvious choice.

Systems wise the A-10 is rather complex, but it's all very logical. So it's not that it's very complicated stuff, it's just a lot of it. ;) So it's rather a quantity than a quality issue, if you will. Just make sure you have a HOTAS with tons of buttons. ^^

Viggen and Mirage systems complexity is pretty similar IMO, although they feel completely different. Mirage is more digital while Viggen is analog.

When it comes to simply flying Mirage is easiest thanks to FBW, A-10 is also a piece of cake and Viggen takes a bit more practice. But since you already have experience in FC3 that shouldn't be a big concern.

Hope this helps and welcome to the forum!

Get what interests you the most. There is no problem going from an FC3 A-10 to full fidelity. It is the most complicated plane in the game but you already know most of its weapons and flight handling characteristics.

With that said, the A-10C is a better A-10A, the Mirage is a French MiG-29A basically and the Viggen is a maverick and anti-ship missile spammer. It does not have any meaningful air to air capability. Other good options are the MiG-21, F-5E and Ka-50.

The MiG-21 is a well rounded light fighter with simple systems and docile handling, though landing can be intimidating. It's perfectly matched to the F-5E in air to air and is a solid mud mover too. The F-5E is easy to fly and possibly the simplest jet in the game, but falls short in air to ground compared to the MiG. The Ka-50 is the easiest chopper to fly, the most capable tank buster (beating even the A-10) and is of intermediate complexity.

In terms of single player content, all have an included campaign except the F-5 which has none and the Ka-50 which has 3. The Viggen's campaign is a beta currently and must be downloaded from the website, but should be added in a patch in the near future.

The first plane that really got me into learning a fully clickable was the Mig-21, despite owning A-10C for years. Its just such a fun plane to learn and master and it have a nice campaign to. All the switches might scare you at first but in the end its quit simple.

I echo that it depends on what you like/want to do. The other question is whether you have the HOTAS Warthog. If you do, that makes the A-10C lots easier to learn, but will make it more difficult if you don't.

The Mirage is a very easy aircraft to fly and learn. It's fly by wire, and the autopilot is intuitive. This also means that you can set level flight and focus on systems to learn. Startup is easy and you can do it by memory after a couple of times. The toughest part is learning the INS; that's the most complex system in the Mirage. However, you can start with the INS aligned in the options menu, which reduces your learning curve until you're ready to tackle the more complex aspects of the startup. The tutorials are very good. Downside is limited AG capability (though INS offset bombing is a lot of fun) and only Fox1/2 AA capability, so if you want to fire 4 missiles simultaneously like the F-15 you'll be disappointed.

The Viggen is my favorite module right now. It's easy to fly, the HUD makes sense once you get used to it, the ground radar is very cool (especially doing radar INS updates), and the AG capability is a blast. Avionics-wise, it is similar to the Mirage in that they both use INS for navigation, so you occasionally need to update your position to account for drift. The autopilot is also very solid, and flying at treetop level at Mach .9 is fairly easy. However, the systems are cryptic at best, though once you understand how it works it is one of the easiest planes to fight. The start-up is even easier than the Mirage, and the tutorials are very good (though I'm hoping for some additional tutorials to cover the wide variety of weapons and master modes). Only downside right now is that it is very early in its early release, so you may not be experienced enough to recognize the difference between a bug and the operator error that will likely come with the new level of interactivity. That said, it is very polished given that it was released a month ago, and it will only get better.

Both birds will scratch your itch without being too cumbersome. Both are fast and easy to fly, and both are quality modules. Just expect that with the Viggen you will spend some time reading Chuck Owl's Guide and watching John's training videos so the system will actually make sense to you.

Thanks for all the answers! It helps me a lot. A multirole fighter should be my favorite, but I found out that the emphasize of the aircraft in DCS is either on A2G or A2A. So I think I have to choose and after what I have read in your answers, A2G will have my preference. I understand that the Mirage is more of an A2A aircraft, so I think the Viggen or A-10C will be the aircraft of my choice. I like the ground radar and the kind of weapons of the Viggen and the laser guided bombing of the A-10C. It's a hard choice ;)

@ Home Fries: I have HOTAS, but not the warthog (X56).

There is a big difference between the two in how they fly though.

As the Viggen is just as fast as most fighters in DCS when you throw in the afterburner (If one gets rid of Centerline tanks / Bombs etc)

and can cruise at mach 0.8 on military power with a full weapons load.

Where as in the A-10 you will tend to keep between 280-320 knots and not much faster (unless clean).

But instead the A-10C has a much larger payload so once you reach the target area you can circle it and kill a large number of ground targets

(if there are no enemy fighters trying to make life hard for you atleast).

Where as in the AJS 37 Viggen you only have 4 Pylons dedicated for Air-Ground weapons (And no Internal gun so if you want to carry guns you need to give up 1 or 2 Air-Ground pylons for the Gunpods)

so you are more limited in how many targets you can kill per sortie

(Though due to the high speed the trips from base to target area can be completed much quicker then in the A-10).

The Viggen is also more hands on and in my opinion significantly more fun to fly and do strikes in.

Where as the A-10C is more of a point and click kinda deal once you get to the target area (since if there is a lack of sams or enemy fighters you will simply circle above the target while searching and destroying targets using the TGP and Guided munitions).

But for me the there is a simple reason i very much prefer the Viggen

(and why i never much liked the A-10).

And that is simply a need that the A-10 cannot fulfill ^^.

You should also consider that there are more US aircraft With advanced systems,Targeting pods and laser guided munitions that should arrive Soon™ namely the AV-8B NA and the F/A-18C so if those are features that you want but you dont necessarily want the A-10C you could simply wait for one of those (And the Progress on the AV-8B NA looks to be speeding up so it should be out this year probably if not even this summer).

Where there is no other aircraft in DCS (or soon to arrive in DCS)

that works like the Viggen with its unique mix of

1960s/70s tech and SAAB style "Solutions" ^^.

And if you decide to go with the Viggen i would be more then happy to talk you through how to use it

(or if somebody else needs that help).

Being an A-10C guru, I will sing the Hawg's praises until I go mute. Saddle up and let me learn you a bit about what makes the A-10C the best module in DCS.

Bringin' the Thunder: Currently, the A-10C's air to ground capability stands absolutely unchallenged by any other module for obvious reasons. The A-10C has fantastic weapons at it's disposal, from the versatile GAU-8/A, the powerful AGM-65 family, the surgical hammer strikes of the guided GBU family.. these are the A-10s primary tools of chaos. While all of these mentioned weapons are effective and capable, I've found that the A-10s most powerful strikes will come from her CBU-97s and CBU-105s. These cluster munitions are capable of converting entire tank columns into scrap metal, and I don't just mean one or two tanks. The A-10 sheer firepower carried on her pylons has her flying far above any other module so far. If you want to move some mud, the A-10 will be your sweetheart.

In Contrast, Forgiving and Gentle: The A-10 is by far the "easiest" and most enjoyable module to physically hand fly. Most fighters burn holes through the sky and shudder at the mere notion of low airspeeds - not the A-10, the A-10 sails gracefully through. The A-10 retains very good roll, yaw and pitch authority all the way into the stall. Stall recovery is a breeze, and can be accomplished with surprisingly little altitude. She's also very easy to trim, and is no stranger to low airspeeds and tight turns. The A-10 is the only module in DCS that I truly enjoy just flying, and I find cruising around the skies of Nevada to be just as rewarding as watching a Maverick fly off the rail and bust a tank in two.

Durability takes no backseat in this design: The A-10 can regularly and reliably survive MANPAD hits and AAA fire. While you may lose some electronics and other equipment, it takes quite a lot of work to bust the A-10 up to no longer being mission capable. I need to say no more than to provide a link to this video:

Lookin good, sounding good: As a Combined Arms JTAC, there is no other plane I like to work with than the A-10. Calling these guys in on 9-lines is oh-so rewarding, having them swoop overhead and hearing the mighty thunder of the GAU-8/A is something I will always remember when I think of DCS. The A-10 and the A-10 alone is the reason I bought Combined Arms - to witness the awe inspiring sound and sights of being a JTAC for the A-10s in my squadron and to get the ground unit perspective of a CAS strike. While many consider the A-10 to be an ugly bird that only it's mother could love, most of her pilots warm right up to it and come to appreciate her not-so-graceful curves and mean silhouette. Oh my, and the TF-34s! The Viggen sure sounds great on a flyby, but can't hold a candle to the pig. If you're going to pick up the A-10C, the A-10C Real Sound Mod and Ga-Bika's GAU-8 sounds are must haves!

A cozy, ergonomic cockpit: While the numerous buttons, buttons, switches, levers, rotary knobs, etc. must seem very daunting for a new pilot, the A-10C's cockpit is quite a cozy pit to crawl in to once you get used to it. In my opinion, Ricardo's Horse of War cockpit is an absolutely must-have addon. Really gives the Pig that feel that she's "been there" before. And another thing about the cockpit, everything is right where you want it to be.

There's so much more to be said... and not enough space on the internet! While I do acknowledge that this "assessment" may have been a little biased... I can promise you that if Air to Ground is your shindig, the A-10 will be for you and will not regret it.

The A-10 is fantastic jet for a first module as it's simplistic to fly, yet complicated in systems - it will allow you to spend a lot less time on flying the aircraft and more time learning about how it's systems operate. Also, with having the most complex systems in DCS, once you learn the A-10, everything else will be a cakewalk. At least until the F/A-18C.

Blue skies and Tailwinds.

My vote goes for Mig21. Surprisingly, I enjoy it most for the A-G role although it is limited

 

The best thing you can do is watch some youtube videos for each aircraft. That will give you an idea for what it fits better to you. But we all know you are goin to buy em all in the long run

I'm with you brother! I've been giving the MiG-21 a lot of love lately. Especially with my 2nd monitor (touchscreen) and the Captain Zeen profile. She's a lot of fun.

But to be honest, I started out with the A-10C as my first DCS bird. It took me a few months to learn all of her, but is worth it.

Thanks guys! @Mattebubben: thanks for the offer! Will remember that when I am stuck with the Viggen ;)

I have another question btw: I don't have rudder pedals with toebreaks. Is this necessary?

Not really. You can fly anything in the game with just a twist stick. If you have no rudder outside of keyboard or buttons, stay away from props and choppers but fixed wing jets are still fine.

Thanks!

@ Home Fries: I have HOTAS, but not the warthog (X56).

You can map the A-10C nicely with that solution, but when people start talking about China Hat forward long, DMS Left Short, etc., you will need to think about how you assigned those. TMS and DMS won't be a big deal, but you will need to think about CMS and the throttle controls. It's very doable, but it's another step in translating the A-10C buttonology that is so important. You will also have a lot of fun with the Viggen, considering all those rotaries you have on the throttle. I imagine Leatherneck will be adding more analog controls (radar elevation will be nice), but you can use MKR (radar contrast) for now. It also looks like you have 3 analog sticks (including the joystick itself). You can use this for the aircraft, the radar cursor, and the RB05 missile control.

In comparing the Viggen to the A-10C, it boils down to different strokes for different folks. Both are capable air to ground aircraft, but they specialize in different missions. The Viggen is a low level all weather strike aircraft: it goes in low and uses ground radar to both avoid terrain and navigate. You generally carry one type of AG weapon, because you know your target ahead of time. The strike mission is about the journey to the target; releasing your weapons on target is job satisfaction, but the real mission takes place flying low level on ingress and egress. You plan your missions to a T, including which waypoints are used to update your INS and your weapon release parameters, and your moves in the target area are choreographed in advance. You may pickle your weapons without ever seeing the target, and then get out of Dodge before you can admire your handiwork. Speed is life.

By comparison, the A-10 is a close air support (CAS) aircraft. Though it can perform interdiction and strike, its purpose in life is to knock out enemy troops that are in direct contact with friendly troops. The A-10 is all about putting rounds on target in a contested area, so its low speed/high bypass contributes to its accuracy and loiter time. The A-10 is well protected because it is slow and may need to do its business at low altitude in order to distinguish friend from foe on the ground. However, in an ideal situation you are at high level above AAA range, lobbing precision guided bombs with your targeting pod providing both guidance and confirmation of target destruction. Much of your time is spent finding targets to hit, then getting in position to hit them. Depending on the JTAC (assuming AI), it can be easy or frustrating finding targets; if you have a human JTAC it is a blast.

My bias is probably obvious; my background is strike, so I like to plan everything to the nth degree and then execute. Low level strike is my idea of fun. However, both planes are capable and the modules are high quality.

*whispers*

Viggennnnnnnn...

BK-90 "mjölnir"

A/G Radarrrrrrrr

~Best feature~ = Working tape player

What can you not love about it?!

You've gotten great advice on the three aircraft you were asking about. But, we need to know more about what time period aircraft you want.

WWII: Get the Bf-109K-4 - lovely plane, looks great, flies better.

Korea: MiG-15 is really fun, F-86 has more A/G capability

Vietnam: MiG-21 is fantastic (one of my favorites, and what got me hooked on LN's work). I still prefer the F-5 because it's just got the WOW factor for me in the looks department. I also think the F-5 is much more A/G capable and simpler to fly.

Modern: M2000 for A2A - only non-FC3 modern jet fighter, and I prefer the full fidelity. For Strike, A-10C for CAS and long-loiter missions. Viggen is great, but it will take some serious study to learn how to use the navigation and computer systems. Consider that the Viggen is best used for pre-planned strikes. The A-10C is better for targets of opportunity and carrying a lot of ordnance on a lengthy sortie. Also, the A-10C can do air to air refueling (fun to try, painful to master).

but, later this year, there will only be one answer to the question of "which aircraft to buy"

F-14!

It's a no-brainer. Anyone who doesn't buy it is obviously off his meds and should be immediately checked into the nearest mental institute.

I would like JA-37D more than tomkitty :P

I prefer planes that don't self-detonate when going above mach-1...(Yes, yes, I know it was an F-14A model, but to be fair LNS IS making an A model and B model.) Plus IIRC the tomcat B's A/G capabilities will be entirely set on whether its a B+, with targeting pod and other doohickeys. I know they can all load four heavy bombs on the pheonix pylons, but other than that + zuni rockets I don't see too much appeal from it compared to an F-15E, F-16, F-100, F-4 PhantomII, Tornado, Jaguar, or JA-37s...

Gotta admit though the Tomcats were always pretty planes, but I'd definitely prefer some other aircraft over it...But imho PhantomIIs will be my main requested plane next to Mirage F1M or Gripen + JA-37.

Get what interests you the most. There is no problem going from an FC3 A-10 to full fidelity. It is the most complicated plane in the game but you already know most of its weapons and flight handling characteristics.

 

With that said, the A-10C is a better A-10A, the Mirage is a French MiG-29A basically and the Viggen is a maverick and anti-ship missile spammer. It does not have any meaningful air to air capability. Other good options are the MiG-21, F-5E and Ka-50.

 

The MiG-21 is a well rounded light fighter with simple systems and docile handling, though landing can be intimidating. It's perfectly matched to the F-5E in air to air and is a solid mud mover too. The F-5E is easy to fly and possibly the simplest jet in the game, but falls short in air to ground compared to the MiG. The Ka-50 is the easiest chopper to fly, the most capable tank buster (beating even the A-10) and is of intermediate complexity.

 

In terms of single player content, all have an included campaign except the F-5 which has none and the Ka-50 which has 3. The Viggen's campaign is a beta currently and must be downloaded from the website, but should be added in a patch in the near future.

FTFY

Id say M2000C is closer to the Mig29S counterpart Minus Amrams since it unlike the 29A it has better lookdown shootdown, and Electronic jammer in the airframe.. plus it actually has a dedicated radar display, not just a HUD repeater.

on a another note while the AJS37 is great anti ship platform i find its not the ideal ground strike aircraft depending on personal preferences, I personally don't like how you cant mix A2G muntions. where as M2000 is flexible with what you can take (applies to A10 as well). so you can attack secondaries with greater variation of munitions within a single flight. but granted at the end of the day the M2K, its still a fighter first bombing as a secondary role, and relies mostly on unguided munitions. But if playing with a jtac or A10C pilot you can have them buddy lase targets and drop Gbu12's with precision.

I personally think of the 3 ( if slow movers like the A10 arent your thing) the M2000 will be the fairly easy and relatively modern fighter to start with. ( if legacy fighters arent your thing)

otherwise the F5E is very straightforward versatile lightweight fighter to hop into and fun to Zip around in. a Mig21 without the quirky flight characteristics, and with less switchology.

 

In terms of single player content, all have an included campaign except the F-5 which has none

 

In actuality the F5E does have a campaign. The Aggressor Basic Fighter manuvers. Campaign, if you own the Nevada Map.

https://www.digitalcombatsimulator.com/en/products/campaigns/f-5e_abfm_campaign/

Thanks guys for all of the advise!!! Helped me a lot. I made the decision to buy the Viggen. Have made my first takeoff ...... and crashed soon after that ;) Thrust went gone. No compressor stall I think but just noobish flying ;)

Thanks guys for all of the advise!!! Helped me a lot. I made the decision to buy the Viggen. Have made my first takeoff ...... and crashed soon after that ;) Thrust went gone. No compressor stall I think but just noobish flying ;)

Good Choice and im sure you will be happy with it.

Send me a PM (Or add me on skype)

if you want to link up for some time with a "Qualified" Viggen instructor ^^

since as i stated earlier i would be more then happy to take you through the steps to become a proper Viggen pilot ^^.

:Edit

About the crash how soon was it after takeoff?

Are you sure it was the Thrust that went and not Lift?

Since the Flaps are linked to the landing gears and how it works atm is the flaps retract instantly

when the gears are starting to retract causing a decrease in lift which could cause problems

if one start to raise the Gear to quickly.

This is not working exactly as it should atm since there should be a delay

between the Gears retracting and the flaps retracting in order to give you

time to gain speed / altitude before the lift from the flaps is lost,

so hopefully they will fix that problem soon enough but as it is its a good idea to hold off

a few seconds after getting airborne before retracting gear

(to where you get enough altitude / speed to where the sudden loss of lift wont cause you to fall back to the ground).

Yep the Viggen is very good choice.

I am a a chopper fiend, but the Viggen is a priority machine for me to learn. She is an effective low level interdictor and until the Tornado tears a path of destruction through DCS world, she will do for now.

When it comes to flying planes however, the first time I flew the A-10C was on the start up tutorial that is given by Barack Obama. I spooled up just as Obama showed me, then I taxied to the run way. I took of with no problems and flew around for a while and then landed her just fine, then I taxied her to a parking space. The airbrakes on this aircraft are superb as is the control.... a dream to fly.

Good Choice and im sure you will be happy with it.

About the crash how soon was it after takeoff?

Are you sure it was the Thrust that went and not Lift?

My throttle didn't react anymore. I tried to click on it, then it went to off. I couldn't do anything else than just glide and crash ;)

Second sortie I managed to keep the Viggen up for a time. After that I crashed by flying to low. Normally I fly F-15. That aircraft seems to be a little bit more forgiving in doing that than the Viggen. The latter seems to descend faster ;)

Thanks for the help btw, will PM you soon. I can use all the help I think. I's complex enough.

One thing you need to take in consideration when flying the Viggen in high speeds is that there is a significant Trim change in the transonic region

(thus the warning light for it) so when nearing those speeds be ready to compensate by pulling back on the stick (or keeping the nose down when you are leaving Supersonic speeds if you have changed the Trim)

there is usually no point in trying to trim while in the transonic region since the changes are so big so just use the stick to correct untill you are out of the transonic region then trim correctly,

the ATT autopilot mode can also be used to keep it steady enough during the transonic speed transition though i would probably not rely on it completely if flying at low altitude.

But if one takes that into account i find the Viggen to be very easy to fly very low with (Which is not surprising considering that was what it was ment to do) and she is pretty stable flying with and pretty forgiving when it comes to maneuvering (Other then the Engine Compressor stall problem).

So flying low is no problem as long as you pay attention to the speed,

and i regularly fly as low as 7-10m above water and 10-20 above land.

I probably fly lower and faster in the Viggen then in any other aircraft in DCS, (And i have all Fast movers including the FC-3 aircraft,Mig-21,F-5E and Mirage 2000C and im more comfortable at low altitudes in the Viggen then any of those though im not sure i can explain exactly why).

And about that Throttle issue might you have activated the Auto Throttle (AFK) by accident?

(and that would be why the Throttle did not react)