Vietnam War - POLL - Page 15 - ED Forums
 


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View Poll Results: With the aircrafts we have, should devs focus on creating a Vietnam environment ?
Yes, it would create a new dimension to the DCS World simulator 826 86.13%
No, I prefer 3rds to still work on aircrafts, and to fly in the same old Caucasus 133 13.87%
Voters: 959. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 11-03-2015, 07:34 PM   #141
mjmorrow
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChoSeungWan View Post
Come to think of it, Vietnam would be a bit unbalanced if it was down to air power in DCS. List of 'must-haves' for each side:

US and pals:
F-4 Phantom
F-105 Thunderchief
F-111 Aardvark
A-1 Skyraider
A-4 Skyhawk
A-6 Intruder
A-7 Corsair
F-8 Crusader
F-86 Sabre
Huey
AH-1 Cobra
CH-34 Choctaw

vs

North Vietnam:
Mig-15
Mig-17
Mig-19
Mig-21
Mil Mi-4
Mil Mi-8
Sim-level SA-2

You would have to REALLY flesh out combined arms and add an infantry component to compel people to play North Vietnam on multiplayer.
Seriously, I don't think it would be that imbalanced, unless mission planners go out of their way to make the scenarios unbalanced. If you have subsonic bomb carrying Thuds, covered by missile only F4's, getting ambushed by Mig-17F's, I think you have a highly competitive and balanced mission. if the Thuds want to continue on target, they are gong to take loses, if they drop their bombs and jump to hyper space, they have a good chance of getting away. The Mig-17 pilots could easily get into a bad spot, if they start flying wings level behind a Thud, fixating on getting that kill, allowing F4 jocks to roll in behind and make good use of the AIM 9. Still, if the Mig-17 pilots keep their heads on the swivel and are ok with not getting a Thud kill, they should have a good chance of defeating a Aim 9 missile shot. I think that is really balanced. Now, if you have F-15s vs Mig-17's, then yeah, that would be a sad day for the Mig-17 fanbois, like me...

MJ
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Old 11-04-2015, 03:22 AM   #142
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No, not unbalanced. What you're NOT including in the above list are the AAA guns and SAMs that ringed the north. That is the great 'balancing item' if you will. The AAA/SAMs shot down more a/c than VNAF jets I think.

Besides if we were to replicate a proper Vietnam War scenario, we'll need to replicate both sides to it ie. Route Pack I-VI (bombing missions in North Vietnam) vs ground support missions in South Vietnam.

Don't know if any of you have read books on FACs but those guys had balls, flying O-1s, OV1s and OV10s to name a few. The O-1s were armed only with WP rockets. If we had a proper Vietnam map, you would definitely need FACs.

This is where the dynamic campaign would come in, assuming its developed.
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Old 11-04-2015, 12:47 PM   #143
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Originally Posted by The_Pharoah View Post
No, not unbalanced. What you're NOT including in the above list are the AAA guns and SAMs that ringed the north. That is the great 'balancing item' if you will. The AAA/SAMs shot down more a/c than VNAF jets I think.

Besides if we were to replicate a proper Vietnam War scenario, we'll need to replicate both sides to it ie. Route Pack I-VI (bombing missions in North Vietnam) vs ground support missions in South Vietnam.

Don't know if any of you have read books on FACs but those guys had balls, flying O-1s, OV1s and OV10s to name a few. The O-1s were armed only with WP rockets. If we had a proper Vietnam map, you would definitely need FACs.

This is where the dynamic campaign would come in, assuming its developed.
We do have aircraft to fill in as FAC aircraft until actual ones show up ( if we ever get actual dedicated FAC aircraft).

the 2 seater L39c, & perhaps the unarmed tf51 mustang
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Old 11-04-2015, 09:50 PM   #144
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Originally Posted by mjmorrow View Post
if the Thuds want to continue on target, they are gong to take loses, if they drop their bombs and jump to hyper space, they have a good chance of getting away.J
flying thuds aint like dusting crops boy!
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Old 11-06-2015, 08:52 PM   #145
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flying thuds aint like dusting crops boy!
Yep! DCS is my go to place for a Star Wars fix. I am convinced that the Sabre vs Fagot match up in DCS is the closest we have to a Twenty First Century X-Wing Vs TIE Fighter simulation for the pc, at least until we have a DCS Wildcat vs DCS Zero match up. When I look at this chase scene from Episode VII, involving the Falcon being pursued by First order TIE Fighters, I can totally imagine this chase happening on a DCS Vietnam multiplayer map, except with a DCS Thud as the Falcon and DCS Frescos as the TIE's.

MJ

https://youtu.be/EEG9rtTJV_c?t=7s
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Old 11-06-2015, 10:05 PM   #146
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Have you ever heard of rouge squadron? A real hard sci-fi space sim.

I would 100% buy a Korean War map and fly all the aircraft from that era.

Who would pay for a Falklands map after the tornado comes out

Then we could add the Super Étendard, Skyhawk A-4 or mirage IIIEA.

(excuse me in advance)
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Old 11-07-2015, 05:47 PM   #147
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Originally Posted by mjmorrow View Post
Seriously, I don't think it would be that imbalanced, unless mission planners go out of their way to make the scenarios unbalanced. If you have subsonic bomb carrying Thuds, covered by missile only F4's, getting ambushed by Mig-17F's, I think you have a highly competitive and balanced mission. if the Thuds want to continue on target, they are gong to take loses, if they drop their bombs and jump to hyper space, they have a good chance of getting away. The Mig-17 pilots could easily get into a bad spot, if they start flying wings level behind a Thud, fixating on getting that kill, allowing F4 jocks to roll in behind and make good use of the AIM 9. Still, if the Mig-17 pilots keep their heads on the swivel and are ok with not getting a Thud kill, they should have a good chance of defeating a Aim 9 missile shot. I think that is really balanced. Now, if you have F-15s vs Mig-17's, then yeah, that would be a sad day for the Mig-17 fanbois, like me...

MJ
The Mig-17 vs F-105D match up is a very good one, a classic radius vs rate fight. Also, the Thud was more capable than many give it credit. Consider, USAF shot down 135 Mig's in seven and a half years, during the 18 months between 29 Jun 1966 and 19 Dec 1967 the Thuds shot down 27 Mig-17's and shared a kill with a Phantom crew. The Phantom box score during the same 18 months was 21 Mig-17's and 21 Mig-21's, and the -21's rarely targeted the F-105D's, they preferred to go after the Weasels. Also, the -105's had more Mig encounters (151) than any other USAF model (Jon Lake's F-105 THUNDERCHIEF MIG KILLERS OF THE VIETNAM WAR).

Technically the F-105 was subsonic with bombs and tanks, but that was a paper Technical Order limitation. The tanks carried a 600 KCAS limit and depending on how many and what type of bombs the limit was between 600-675 KCAS. The SL speed of sound is 660 knots. I've read plenty of memoirs of Thud pilots who punched the tanks, kept the bombs and accelerated out past 700 KCAS to leave the Mig's behind.

Typical Rolling Thunder strike packages in the mid '66 to end of Rolling Thunder consisted of 16 F-105D split into 4 flights of 4, 4 F-105F Weasels (or 2 F's and 2 D's), and 4 F-4C/D's. Typically the Mig-21's would do a hit and run on the Weasels and the Phantoms would engage. Then with the escorts drawn away the -17's hit the D's. Again, typically one of the 4 flights of D's was the designated escort, they would have Aim-9's and would jettison all bombs and tanks. The remaining 3 flights would likely punch the tanks (especially if empty), light the burners and press on to the target.

The deciding factor of any -17 vs Thud match up is who sticks to their strengths, if the Thud keeps the speed above 500 knots and altitude below 15,000 they are superior in every measure of performance to the Mig. One of the main reasons both the Phantoms and Thuds didn't shoot down more Mig's was they were using bad tactics that only treated the flight lead as the primary shooter. Freed of that constraint in DCS, the match up is very balanced.

Cheers

Last edited by mkellytx; 11-08-2015 at 04:18 AM.
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Old 11-08-2015, 05:00 PM   #148
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Someone missed the F-104 off the list. It did serve early on and flew a lot of sorties, even if it didn't actually get any A2A kills.
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Old 11-09-2015, 05:10 PM   #149
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@mkellytx- That would be super cool. I really think it will be a solid and fun match up. Without bombs and such, i think that Mig-17F sim pilots will have our work cut out for us. I am pretty sure that the Thud had a favorable kill to death ratio against the Fresco and there are some really talented DCS sim pilots out there. Outside of attacking the novice AI, I think I am going to be in my parachute a lot.

@Frosty- I have heard of that sim. if I had the free time, I would add it in my rotation, but I have to keep what game time I do have for DCS and the DOW server crew. i like your taste in planes, too! Out of the three you mentioned, i think the A-4 Skyhawk would be a great one for a Vietnam map.

@Buzzles- The F-104 is an interesting plane. I wonder how it would fare? Not necessarily in Vietnam, I think it had a tough time against the Mig-21, but had success against the Mig-19. On a Vietnam map, with the right tactics, it ought to be effective against the Mig-17F or the Shenyang J-6, I suppose. P.S. The Shenyang J-6 might be a good first PRC plane for DCS World, since we don't have a Chinese plane, yet.
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Old 11-10-2015, 10:33 AM   #150
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This also my strongest wish about DCS, I eager it so much!!!
1 authentic data make fly real, (real control procedure of Mig-21 A-10c and UH-1 makes DCS the top of combat simulator.)
2 many different missions with different aircrafts, possibility.
3 easy to make scenery, trees and trees and more trees, almost no building need to be fit with satillite scenery.
3 dogfight attract more flight sim beginner join DCS
and more

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