Jump to content

In regards to concerns about the M-61 Vulcan in DCS World


NineLine

Recommended Posts

  • ED Team

Dear all, I have received a detailed review of the M-61 Vulcan in DCS, this was written from the discussion of our developer on this weapon, as well as an SME with real-world experience and application of the issues in question. Thanks all for your patience on this matter.

 

- The ED Team

 

For some background, rounds fired from any gun system are scattered in a cone-shaped pattern after they leave the gun’s muzzle. The pattern becomes a larger and larger cone as slant range increases while the density of rounds within the cone becomes less and less as the edge of the cone is approached. This is known as ‘normal or Gaussian dispersion’ and has been modeled in DCS: World for a long time.

 

The dispersion used for the M61A1 gun system is 8 mils diameter for 80% of the rounds fired. This is based on MIL-DTL-45500/1A and the manufacturer’s datasheet, which both agree on this standard.

 

This was discussed and tested internally at ED with our lead engineer on this weapon as well as an SME with real-world gun boresight experience. Both concur that this is what they are seeing with the simulation of this weapon and that it is the best possible result based on the data available to the team.

Several questions were presented in anticipation of what may be asked by the community. All responses are edited slightly for clarity.

 

  1. Can we say that with confidence that when players pull the trigger, 80% of the rounds will be within 8 mils diameter circle?
     
    Yes, but you must keep in mind that the hit dispersion is several stochastic events. So, the number of hits can differ slightly from test to test. If we count 80 percent of hits inside a theoretical circle, we can see 8 mil, 7.8 mil, 8.3 mil, etc, from test to test. But of course, if the number of test hits increases, the inherent error moves to zero, and 80 percent of the rounds will be within 8 mils as specified.
     
     
  2. What mil diameter circle will 100% of the rounds pass through?
     
    The diameter for 100% of the rounds is about 1.5 the diameter for 80% of the rounds, so 12 mils. And I emphasize again: there always can be occasional rounds that exceed the specified diameter, especially using 100% criterium. In plus or minus though. This averages out over many rounds fired.
     
     
  3. Are there any other factors like gun heating or burst length that will affect the result when players test this? If so, what specific effects should the players expect?
     
    No, this effect is only noticeable on the M2, and only if they expend 150-200 rounds. Most other guns are not affected significantly at all.
     
    The overheating effect initially gives slightly increased dispersion (noticeable but not critical) without changing ballistics. Then the barrel begins to "spit" - muzzle velocity drops, and the high dispersion now does not matter much.
     
     
  4. Can you confirm that diameter is used and not radius?
     
    Yes, the manufacturer’s data specifies diameter for the M61, so we do use diameter, not radius. If nothing is specified, we use radius or diameter as appropriate based on our own analysis.

 

Further on this, you can see in the DCS: F-16C Viper manual a good explanation of what dispersion is and how it works in DCS World. What data we are using for that aircraft and the source. This will also be added to the DCS: F/A-18C manual and the F-15C for DCS World manual.

In the absence of open-source data for the specific airframe, any dispersion value other than 8 mil 80% is just a guess. This is the current specification taken directly from the DoD and the manufacturer. Rounds fired from our aircraft in DCS World meet this specification.

64Sig.png
Forum RulesMy YouTube • My Discord - NineLine#0440• **How to Report a Bug**

1146563203_makefg(6).png.82dab0a01be3a361522f3fff75916ba4.png  80141746_makefg(1).png.6fa028f2fe35222644e87c786da1fabb.png  28661714_makefg(2).png.b3816386a8f83b0cceab6cb43ae2477e.png  389390805_makefg(3).png.bca83a238dd2aaf235ea3ce2873b55bc.png  216757889_makefg(4).png.35cb826069cdae5c1a164a94deaff377.png  1359338181_makefg(5).png.e6135dea01fa097e5d841ee5fb3c2dc5.png

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • ED Team

Guys this wasnt meant to turn into another discussion of the same sorts, the statement was worked on and prepared by an SME and the dev, it was looked at by Nick and Wags, this is where we are currently at on the M-61. For now, the issue is considered closed, if some new information comes up, you can find the bug thread on the subject or send a PM to anyone on the ED Team or and of the ED testers. Thanks guys.

 

I have moved all discussion to the bug thread, you can feel free to discuss there. Thanks https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=254745


Edited by NineLine

64Sig.png
Forum RulesMy YouTube • My Discord - NineLine#0440• **How to Report a Bug**

1146563203_makefg(6).png.82dab0a01be3a361522f3fff75916ba4.png  80141746_makefg(1).png.6fa028f2fe35222644e87c786da1fabb.png  28661714_makefg(2).png.b3816386a8f83b0cceab6cb43ae2477e.png  389390805_makefg(3).png.bca83a238dd2aaf235ea3ce2873b55bc.png  216757889_makefg(4).png.35cb826069cdae5c1a164a94deaff377.png  1359338181_makefg(5).png.e6135dea01fa097e5d841ee5fb3c2dc5.png

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • ED Team

Dear all, After a very hectic morning, and evening yesterday, I woke up to learn that the implementation of the above statement as yet to take place. Needless to say, some frustration ensued.

 

So let me update you on this issue further.

 

Everything we stated in the statement above is 100% accurate and true. The issue now is that the implementation of the above statement has not been released to the public. Needless to say, there were some serious frustrations in this not being communicated properly to all channels.

 

I hope with the next Open Beta you will be able to enjoy these new settings that you helped make happen.

 

As frustrating as the last 12 hours have been, I want to assure you that we do listen, and we are working to make DCS the most complete, realistic and accurate simulation on the market. We never want anyone to feel like we are not listening, and that if you ever feel like we really are not, please reach out to me or someone else on the team.

 

We do appreciate your support and passion and apologize for the confusion and frustration you all must be feeling right along with us.

64Sig.png
Forum RulesMy YouTube • My Discord - NineLine#0440• **How to Report a Bug**

1146563203_makefg(6).png.82dab0a01be3a361522f3fff75916ba4.png  80141746_makefg(1).png.6fa028f2fe35222644e87c786da1fabb.png  28661714_makefg(2).png.b3816386a8f83b0cceab6cb43ae2477e.png  389390805_makefg(3).png.bca83a238dd2aaf235ea3ce2873b55bc.png  216757889_makefg(4).png.35cb826069cdae5c1a164a94deaff377.png  1359338181_makefg(5).png.e6135dea01fa097e5d841ee5fb3c2dc5.png

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • BIGNEWY locked this topic
  • Wags unpinned this topic
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...