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How do Air combat with your Su-27 (ir you are new, this is your thread)


pepin1234

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OK here I made about 5 Tracks. I just did all them in a row. Please when you have time run those tracks. Please very very important. Take your Smart-Phone and record in video those tracks (video record the HUD and Avionic in general inside cockpit). Why...? because the tracks get corrupted with next DCS updates. I also discover some very annoying bugs that push even more the how hard is fight with those Russian fighters with bugs. I will post the bugs later in the right forum.

 

NOW: things you must look and notice very well. because those are the most important. Mig-29S, Su-27, J-11 and also why not Mig-29A but with BVR missiles.

 

1- Start your combat with ECM

2- Use first High radar mode for lock and track threats

3- When you reach 45km unlock the target and change to mode ILV. Lock the target back again. (this mode is your combat mode, keep in mind that!)

4- Activate the Override and do side/diving maneuvers as in tracks

5- Launch your first R-27ER at 35-30km, dive/side and again another R-27ER about below 30km range.

6- Now keep the dive for a while and after some seconds start a climb with a loop (I don't remember the name of the damn maneuver right now)

7- Keep both eyes in RWR and angle aspect arrow of the bandit in your HUD.

8- Turn off the ECM (I forgot couples of times do it in those tracks. (important do that)

9- He will be now busy with afterburner and notching, so as possible you can turn radar off depending of his aspect (only IRST/EOS)

10- when he turn onto you Radar ON, your nose onto him and missile, AND you turn down and to the oposite side he is pointing (important) that all quick in a row.

 

All that with chaff dispense in higher rate when: He turn onto you, your RWR get Aim-120 warning. (That's why you should have more chaff than Flare in the container)

 

And last but not least. Take picture of this post and Video of the tracks. keep it for you for further DCS versions comparison. It Change all the time...

 

See tracks here: https://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=4019240&postcount=85

 

https://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=4019244&postcount=86

 

edit: Notice how the tracks get corrupted when the F-15 get in high Gs. Happen the same with F-16. Only when the combat get in high extraterrestre maneuvers by blue fighters suddenly get corrupted. Me shooting cannon to no where, while in real combat was a kill with cannon...


Edited by pepin1234

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Ok here is something hard close to the human behavior. against two Aim -120. keep in mind I forgot decrease the fuel amount so I was a bit heavy for the combat. Anyway I manage to kill the enemy and evade two Aim-120. All was simulated as closest as a human tactics.

 

Please notice those important behave and those will be very important in your success:

 

1-start your combat some below the enemy.

2-Keep the radar orientation (small point in the HUD) the closest you can to the HUD borders. (60 degrees in azimuth and up elevation)

3-If you can, turn toward the same direction the enemy nose is pointing when do his notch maneuver. (you will avoid lose guidance because your radar keep in approaching respect to the enemy)

4-You better keep focused in the HUD helpful information and RWR. Leave visual contact only for a close combat.

 

notice I lost orientation in one of the tracks. and I was downed.

 

see tracks below:

use your 67 degrees radar azimuth 60 degrees elevation in Notch4.trk

use your 67 degrees radar azimuth 60 degrees elevation in Notch5down.trk


Edited by pepin1234

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If after evade the missiles the enemy continue in Notch maneuver what do next?

 

First always keep in mind he is not alone so is not good idea get in pursuit every time. You can turn back and re-organize a second attack. Or go stealth waiting he turn onto you again.

 

How go stealth?

 

Now talking about how human react IRL in a MP server.

 

The Bluefor fighters use extensively the TWS. So that’s why you should play with this card using the weaknesses of this mode. In an scenery with AWACS you must know that your flight aspect is replicated in some MFD of certain bluefor aircrafts. We have the same advantage in our right side display, just that we have twice advantage with our stealth IRST sensor.

 

Situation: we managed to evade the two Aim-120 and the Bluefor fighter keep for a while in Notch direction. What he gonna do next is look for the arcade extra option of look for his kill message in MP chat (serious server remove this option). After this moment what you better do is turn your radar OFF and make a aggressive dive. In that moment you go and play with the Notch card tactic, but not a notch for him. You gonna do the Notch to his AWACS in a very low flight waiting he turn onto your last position, but at this moment you gonna go only EOS/IRST and in Notch for his AWACS and slightly Notch for him (he will use TWS on your search, they have limitations). At this point he gonna think you are damage or falling. After a while holding low and notched for him to the side of him, so after some seconds turn onto him looking for his side aspect (where he have the hottest side) using only EOS/IRST. The missile you gonna use then is R-27ET for a stealthy kill. Don’t wait until impact, never do look impact you don’t need it. You go aggressively in maneuver over him with dives and flares because the next will be use your vertical stealth scanner with R-73 ready for secure this kill in your favor. I will replicate this situation in Track file removing the super smart capabilities of our AI.


Edited by pepin1234

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ok Following the tactic of play with the AWACS in Notch to avoid your position in the enemy Datalink. I did the track with a close example, not the best track but you will have an overall idea. Please don't look how the mission have been edited, because the mission edition is not addressed as main goal in the thread. Just keep looking in the evade maneuvers and the most important to avoid your AWACS detection. Go notch to the AWACS and make moves only doing loops maneuvers. In the Track you see I did a loop and killed the enemy. You also can keep doing loops waiting for enemy approaching and you face him by his side or from below with EOS only or Vertical if you have visual.

 

See track below. Also I give you the mission in case you want training. Not perfect, but is a close help to reality.

Stealth and Notch for AWACS for Counter-Attack.miz

Su-27 Doing Notch to the AWACS to avoid me in his Datalink representation.trk

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Very interesting tactics thanks for sharing! I fly the A-10 and F14 but really enjoy learning about the difference in approach of Russian tech

METEOP

 

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As always. record screen with your Smart-Phone for save this screens in a safe format. As Tracks get corrupted after updates.

 

Following useful tactics we can comment and look in our tracks for Further analysis. there are two tactics very important you should try. Remember never try this tactics against no modified AI, just save it for human players. The Bluefor AI is too OP in maneuvers and situation Awareness. So, please keep in mind I did modify my mission to at least get it closer as possible to a Human situation awareness, as I cant mod the exaggerated Physics Flight model for Bluefor been made by main developers.

 

Moving Forward, please look on this combat features because there are maneuvers you can learn:

 

Situation: Bandit is coming in a very low altitud flight toward me and I lost radar contact (that happen because the difference in altitude and lower clutter terrain)

 

1- Make a slight Dive to get better scan profile respect to your Radar/bandit/background terrain. You can see how contact get in radar after decrease ~500m.

what could happen instead: If they never show in radar after a while (this situation is not show in track). You must stay very low notching the enmy AWACS for a while, to make counter-attack after a stealthy re-scan with only IRST sensor. Very dangerous but work. A safer second option is cancel the fight, turn towar friendly area and reorganize a second entry.

 

2- After contact did shown in radar. I lock/unlock to verify his flight profile, change to ILV radar mode (remember is the best radar mode for combat). ECM ON, radar scan range to 25km and lock. with radar and IRST. BOTH...

 

3- As the enemy flight profile is low altitud approaching. My maneuvers will be a combination of semi-inverted dives with side turns and climbs, finishing with a very low horizontal flight with enemy to one side. Why so...? because you should maintain this lock inside the max limit area covered by radar/IRST and at the same time move away from him without lose solid lock. See more info in manual.

 

4- So, after all your maneuvers that defeated two Aim-120. As always enemy have two options: Keep in Notch for a counter-attack, or just run away. So if you are in a full simulation settings server. You response for that are two options 1- after launched the thrid missile, make a agressive climb until more than 3500m over him with radar OFF while he keep evading your missiles. then dive over him with Vertical/IRST only (no radar), see track. 2- If he keep running away with more than 10km range from you, cancel the pursuit. If it is closer, launch a couple of missiles to decrease the distance while he run away and get closer for the last try. As possible, finish your fight with radar OFF and IRST ON only.

 

See attached of mission for practice, two tracks with different situations. If after run a track, the fight does not finish with bandit died, run again the track:

How to low altitude combat counter attack from above.trk

How to low altitude combat vertical with Helmet.trk

How to Low altitude Combat.miz


Edited by pepin1234

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  • 1 month later...
Just asking: Why to turn on the jammer? What is it good for in?

You deny the enemy the range info and locking ability before his burn-through range is achieved. His only option may be HOJ or mad dog AMRAAM.

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This standardized engagement may work in singleplayer against AI, however this does not give players who want to compete in multiplayer a proper picture of how the fight works. I strongly advise to not use AI to develop tactics on how to beat human players apart from isolated tests for things like missile ranges.

 

So treat this "guide" with a big grain of salt.

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