Jump to content

Cruising is painful..


Recommended Posts

Also mind previous "things" weren't real simulators but, lets say harder arcades. You can't compare DCS to anything you tried before..

 

I beg to differ; Cliffs of Dover with Team Fusion's patches is pretty damn true to life.

 

Regardless, that's such a stupid thing to say. DCS is not the greatest, end all be all flight sim there ever was. It's still lacking on major critical functions, there are other sims out there with models on par with DCS, and at the end of the day we're all tweaking based on our own interpretations of the hard data we have available.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 206
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

You still didn't answer my question!

None of you did it!

Why?

Is it so hard to make a short track flying the BF109 like in this Vid?

 

...

..

.

 

I'd love to make a track but track recording is currently broken in v1.5. When its fixed I intend to make a video (need tracks for better recording and playback for that).

 

I beg to differ; Cliffs of Dover with Team Fusion's patches is pretty damn true to life.

 

Regardless, that's such a stupid thing to say. DCS is not the greatest, end all be all flight sim there ever was. It's still lacking on major critical functions, there are other sims out there with models on par with DCS, and at the end of the day we're all tweaking based on our own interpretations of the hard data we have available.

 

Just FYI we're not allowed to discuss other sims here. On the same subject, every one of them models something better than the rest, that much is given.

 

I fly them all, and DCS's FM is the only sim where I have to work to get the most out of a plane. I don't like "mushy controls" in some of them, and ground handling is second to none in DCS, by a long shot. Feels like no corners have been cut and it wasn't made to be easier for desktop users like us. But that is my subjective impression.

 

We're lucky to be able to choose from several titles, whatever suites you best.

  • Like 1

P8Z68 | 2500k @ 4.5 | GTX 1080Ti | 2x8 GB @ 1600 | TM Hog (extended 7cm) & MFG Crosswind (S/N 007) | TIR v5

WWII bomber formations | DCS P-51D: [TEST] TO distance / gross weight / temperature

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I beg to differ; Cliffs of Dover with Team Fusion's patches is pretty damn true to life.

 

Regardless, that's such a stupid thing to say. DCS is not the greatest, end all be all flight sim there ever was. It's still lacking on major critical functions, there are other sims out there with models on par with DCS, and at the end of the day we're all tweaking based on our own interpretations of the hard data we have available.

You've the right to differ as I've the right to inform you CloD is a pretty damn piece of crap as a simulation :smilewink:. Nice graphics (after mods), but anything else.

 

We have to keep in mind we're discussing different things here. There's still a lack of content in WWII DCS? Of course, we are awaiting maps, more units, more aircraft either IA and flyable. But the simulation, as a simulator meaning how close it resembles the flight dynamics and behaviour in the air (and on ground... a big forgotten in anything previous) and also the aircraft systems, how they work and affects your control of the plane, that is only resembled in DCS by far so any comparison is just impossible. Time ago study sims only focussed in a single aircraft, that's the only way to match it as close as you can to RL. Massive FS trying to resemble lots of aircraft at once made us forget that. But DCS is recovering the old study simulation, just they all together in a single World. Every single module in DCS is comparable to a whole simulator as we understood back in the days of the great sims, look at Falcon for instance. No other supposed simulator out there is anything close in simulation to DCS.

 

S!

"I went into the British Army believing that if you want peace you must prepare for war. I believe now that if you prepare for war, you get war."

-- Major-General Frederick B. Maurice

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I guess the pilot quotes were all lies then huh... cherry pick ;)

I hate the lies, and the liers ... and you? :music_whistling:

But the report confirms what I stated as well, that trim effects dive recovery, which is what we see in our module... so thanks for yet another confirmation ;)

 

"If you trim the elevator just 0.5° more

nose heavy the force in direction push is less, but it is not possible to

recover just by using the stick, it is necessary to use the horizontal

stabilizer trim"

 

Also seems to suggest just that, that 1º 15' was probably the max you wanted to be trimmed when diving...

 

"This trials started with idle dives (automatic propeller pitch, n = 1500) to

estimate an horizontal stabilizer trim setting, that makes it possible to

recover a dive with the stick"

 

Seems to suggest more was not possible to recover from.

 

You are overlooking a very important things in this test, in the "conclusions " last pages.

-Page 16.

" Unlike the idle dives, it was not possible to hold the angle of dives at full

throttle with the same trim setting, cause the upward torque of the

engine. Trim tabs were set to nose heavy to reach a similar force

development, like in idle dives."

in consequence...

1/ Bf-109 upward torque of the engine, is a force in nose-up direction when flying at full throttle, which disappear when cut the throttle, and the aircraft becoming to nose-heavy. In DCS Bf-109K4, the engine torque in flight, only affect to roll axis, not to pitch axis, there are not upward or downward torque forces. ..That is wrong, my friend ! :huh:

I am trying to explain this, from month ago in other threads, due to this is the main reason that the russian VVS test is not valid for modeling the Bf-109K4 elevator position at cruise power. (although there are many other reasons,.):music_whistling:

http://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=2457545&postcount=25

 

 

2/ Fixed Trim tabs are capable to enhanced the the elevator trim behavior, as necessary.

 

3/And the most important thing, ...According with the charts result of the tests, (pages 17 & 18.) the Bf-109 is capable to flight trimmed full nose-down, at 850Km/h TAS (and more), with NO force in the Stick (IAS Va = 745 km/h at 3.8 km alt).

 

"After peeling off,force into direction “pull” because this trim setting is nose

heavy at cruising speed, when the speed increase “push” to keep the

plane at the angle of dive till TAS Vw = 850 km/h was reached, then the

force was reducing till zero reached. After this the plane was pulled out of

the dive just using the stick. (Chart)"

 

12074675_10208052821620619_315589084876211312_n.jpg?oh=32ac637825ee931d27436011fb79fe8a&oe=568CB3A9

 

Obviously, + 1º15' trim setting, is the best configuration for recovering a full throttle dive in a Bf-109, but this is NOT the optimal setting, for cruise power, with a lower upward torque than full throttle. ;)

I have sufficiently clarified my point with this?? :smilewink:

 

 

edited: VW=TAS, ..the label was wrong originally in the document.


Edited by III/JG52_Otto_+
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Well, for one thing you should start by correcting your IAS to TAS.

Vw = TAS, as the report clearly states.

 

At no point did they get above 745 km/h IAS.


Edited by Sporg

System specs:

 

Gigabyte Aorus Master, i7 9700K@std, GTX 1080TI OC, 32 GB 3000 MHz RAM, NVMe M.2 SSD, Oculus Quest VR (2x1600x1440)

Warthog HOTAS w/150mm extension, Slaw pedals, Gametrix Jetseat, TrackIR for monitor use

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I hate the lies, and the liers ... and you? :music_whistling:
I hate liars, you're a liar, I hate you :smilewink:.

 

 

You are overlooking a very important things in this test, in the "conclusions " last pages.
You overlook soooo many things every time you talk mate...

 

 

-Page 16.

" Unlike the idle dives, it was not possible to hold the angle of dives at full

throttle with the same trim setting, cause the upward torque of the

engine. Trim tabs were set to nose heavy to reach a similar force

development, like in idle dives."

in consequence...

1/ Bf-109 upward torque of the engine, is a force in nose-up direction when flying at full throttle, which disappear when cut the throttle, and the aircraft becoming to nose-heavy.

Glad you talk about upward engine torque, I talk to you about it all the time :smilewink: while you don't listen. The second part is false, that's a statement you do without any prove. Torque disappears as you cut throttle? Yeah of course. Does it means the aircraft becomes nose heavy? It's not said anywhere, it could just fly levelled or only less nosed up, you liar :smilewink:.

 

 

In DCS Bf-109K4, the engine torque in flight, only affect to roll axis, not to pitch axis, there are not upward or downward torque forces. ..That is wrong, my friend !
Engine torque either upwards and downwards are so heavy you can't trim the aircraft at low speeds with high power and also it's the reason to trim problems at high speed, so paraphrasing your logical statements, in consequence you haven't flown DCS module, I doubt you even own it, and you are a liar :smilewink:.

 

 

3/And the most important thing, ...According with the charts result of the tests, (pages 17 & 18.) the Bf-109 is capable to flight trimmed full nose-down, at 850Km/h IAS (and more), with NO force in the Stick.

 

Obviously, + 1º15' trim setting, is the best configuration for recovering a full throttle dive in a Bf-109, but this is NOT the optimal setting, for cruise power, with a lower upward torque than full throttle. ;)

I have sufficiently clarified my point with this?? :smilewink:

I'm starting to think you're either illiterate or blind, may be both so you can't read properly. That's a dive test paper, there's an effect quite well stated in the written report (so you can't read, definitely) regarding transonic speeds and compressibility. It's a funny one because at very high speeds (and I mean very) compressibility makes controls to be inverted so you have to push instead of pull to keep the dive. That's clearly said in the report, and clearly seen in the graphic (so you're blind). You take the point where pilot recovers and the point where controls inverts (because compressibility) to say at those speeds (TAS indeed, again you can't read) the aircraft can be trimmed... :music_whistling: :doh: :shocking: :lol: Really mate? You have clarified my points, that's you have no idea what you talk about. The graph you can't read clearly says pilot has enormous forces to hold in the stick and any trim can help him. The test shows also a reason, may be the reason, why trim is limited indeed to 1,15º in the real aircraft as it can't be recovered from a deep dive, the test is the prove you are and were wrong all the time about the trim. But it's true your post demonstrates how anybody can wish to see a thing where it doesn't exists and he will still see whatever happens. I read a sentence yesterday, "a dumb will take a path and follow it even when the path disappears". That's you mate.

 

If anything can be said is I haven't test yet the compressibility issue in 1.5 we all knew about after so many trim threads, so I don't know if control inversion happens. But trim perfectly matches what we have right now in the module as the few German graphs available says.

 

 

 

And, for the record, I attach it once again, I think the forum should know this graph almost by memory right now after so many times it's been used :music_whistling:. This isn't any dive, it's levelled. Pilot forces on stick and elevator bending graphic. It says exactly what we currently have in 109 module (as says the graph you posted, just here it's even clearer for the non illiterate like you), that's pilot has to pull the stick all the time to keep level flight and trim can't help,

 

kzaEFhy.jpg

 

S!


Edited by Ala13_ManOWar

"I went into the British Army believing that if you want peace you must prepare for war. I believe now that if you prepare for war, you get war."

-- Major-General Frederick B. Maurice

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • ED Team

AT this point I think its one of two things, you either like the DCS module or you dont, if you dont I hate to break it to you, but right now I dont see any major changes, it flies like many of these tests and quotes being made state, even ones that you have posted, but I think things are getting lost in translation, I am happy to trust Yo-Yo as a professional , so here is mine final call on trim, and now even dive.

 

I cannot reproduce or see any errors in your reported issues Otto, I actually talked to Yo-Yo about dive performance back when all this trim stuff came up, I am confident that its working as ED believes it should, I am good with that. I wont field anymore debates about these two issues, and I will remind you that forum rules state that bring up redundant topics that have been addressed are against those rules.

 

ED does their best to please everyone, that said, its probably unrealistic to please everyone 100%.

64Sig.png
Forum RulesMy YouTube • My Discord - NineLine#0440• **How to Report a Bug**

1146563203_makefg(6).png.82dab0a01be3a361522f3fff75916ba4.png  80141746_makefg(1).png.6fa028f2fe35222644e87c786da1fabb.png  28661714_makefg(2).png.b3816386a8f83b0cceab6cb43ae2477e.png  389390805_makefg(3).png.bca83a238dd2aaf235ea3ce2873b55bc.png  216757889_makefg(4).png.35cb826069cdae5c1a164a94deaff377.png  1359338181_makefg(5).png.e6135dea01fa097e5d841ee5fb3c2dc5.png

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...