F14B Fly by wire

Hi

I know that the F14 B doesn't have a Fly by wire computer system but it will be really good if heatblur implement this system on the tomcat B in order to avoid THE WINGS TO BREAK everytime you need to make a strong turn at 0.8 match or more even if is not realistic.

I know that we probably are never going to have the Super tomcat D, but at least a Tomcat B with a fly by wire system will be awesome, if anyone knows how to simulate this system in the B let me know...i have "tweaked" some files of the tomcat but I only get unexpected results.

its modelled realistically, stop yanking the stick around so brutally and shell reward you. fly her like a warbird with HUUUGE power

The D cat didn't even fly by wire, it had DFCS which was a digital flight control augementation / stability system. Really, the first operational combat aircraft with FBW was the Flanker in the 80's.

Not a big fan of the idea to invent a non existent "fly by wire " system.

However, I would like to see a better way to gauge G loads in the sim. IRL, its kinda hard not too notice the difference between 4, 8 or 12G. That gorilla sitting on your chest is something you notice. In the sim, you have very few indications until its too late. I also imagine in a real tomcat it would take more force on the stick to actually pull 12G than our joysticks can withstand without breaking. There is no way real pilots would do it "by accident" nor would they need to look at a small gauge somewhere in the midst of a dogfight.

Now the tomcat in dcs has more audible cues than some other planes, so good job there heatblur, but it isnt enough. Maybe we should get a loss of peripheral vision that begins much sooner and is more gradual, like a visual G meter to let us "see" the Gs we cant feel. This isnt even that unrealistic FWIW, Im not a super fit highly trained military pilot, but at 4-5G I do begin to lose peripheral vision.

The D cat didn't even fly by wire, it had DFCS which was a digital flight control augementation / stability system. Really, the first operational combat aircraft with FBW was the Flanker in the 80's.

I think that accolade goes to the F-16.

never managed to rip them off.... what am I doing wrong? ;-)

I think that accolade goes to the F-16.

As far as I know the A's had an analogue fbw system. But yeah the 16 might have been the first technically.

Umm, no, just no!

Hi

 

I know that the F14 B doesn't have a Fly by wire computer system but it will be really good if heatblur implement this system on the tomcat B in order to avoid THE WINGS TO BREAK everytime you need to make a strong turn at 0.8 match or more even if is not realistic.

 

I know that we probably are never going to have the Super tomcat D, but at least a Tomcat B with a fly by wire system will be awesome, if anyone knows how to simulate this system in the B let me know...i have "tweaked" some files of the tomcat but I only get unexpected results.

Just learn how to fly within the limits of the air-frame by the visual shaking of the air frame and be gentle on the stick. After you do, you'll rarely break the wings AND it'll fly better too. You'll find very little on this forum that will support this idea because of HB adding an artificial limiter because their goal has been to make this to feel as real as possible.

Yeah, this will never happen. I've also never even once torn the wings off the Tomcat, it's VERY easy to avoid. Do you turn the steering wheel on your car all the way to one side when on the highway going 140 kph?

Hi

 

I know that the F14 B doesn't have a Fly by wire computer system but it will be really good if heatblur implement this system on the tomcat B in order to avoid THE WINGS TO BREAK everytime you need to make a strong turn at 0.8 match or more even if is not realistic.

 

I know that we probably are never going to have the Super tomcat D, but at least a Tomcat B with a fly by wire system will be awesome, if anyone knows how to simulate this system in the B let me know...i have "tweaked" some files of the tomcat but I only get unexpected results.

You have to be pulling VERY hard to break your wings my friend. She's not a Hornet!

As far as I know the A's had an analogue fbw system. But yeah the 16 might have been the first technically.

The F16C, F18, F117 and Tornado (although the Tornado isn't fully digital) all entered service before the Flanker. So did the Mirage 2000, but I think its FBW is still analogue.

But yeah to reply to the OP - it's honestly not that hard to not rip the wings off. I'm sorry to sound rude, but if you can't accept that the Tomcat takes some (not even that much really) amount of care, it may not be the module for you.

No F-14 production model ever had FBW. The DFCS added some stability control, but it wasn't a fly-by-wire system. Until the end, the F-14's surfaces were moved by good ole fashioned fluid pressure and pistons.

If the fly-by-wire system doesn't have limiters to prevent the pilot from catastrophically overstressing the airframe, it's still not going to do you a lick of good. Don't yank the stick so hard and you should be fine.

Ye and give it some AMRAAMs and JDAMs while ur at it. Maybe get rid of the backseater? And screw that wingsweep, nobody needs to go above M1 anyway right? Oh wait, we have that already...

You're in the wrong camp mate

Buffet cues...

Hamfister

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I think you might be happier with the Hornet or Viper.

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Yeah, this will never happen. I've also never even once torn the wings off the Tomcat, it's VERY easy to avoid. Do you turn the steering wheel on your car all the way to one side when on the highway going 140 kph?

Will you guys add a similar audio muffle like the F-16 module when the player starts to go into G-LOCK?

Ye and give it some AMRAAMs and JDAMs while ur at it

JDAM were added. AMRAAM would have been if LANTIRN hadn't repurposed the funding...

FWIW, I haven't torn my wings off ever either. When I was new to the module, I went into spins more than once... especially on approach for land base landings... but not for some time. You learn to not muscle her over and to respect the shuddering.

But yeah the DFCS of the F-14D would be nice... just sayin'.

It takes not a lit of time to get used to. The buffeting gives you clues when you are at closing to max G

It takes not a lit of time to get used to. The buffeting gives you clues when you are at closing to max G

No it doesnt. Buffeting relates to AoA, not g load.

Grim Reapers did a useful video on the topic, explaining how the tomcat has fatigue modeled and also giving a really useful tip:

Basically dont jerk. If you are smooth on the controls, your pilot will black out before your plane breaks.

And while that makes complete sense it also exposes a limitation of our sim. You wouldnt ever jerk like that in RL. Because of the stick force needed and the acceleration you would feel. In a sim with a light joystick that you can move with 2 fingers, and no gorilla jumping on your chest when you do, its much easier to accidentally pull 20g for an instant (especially force feedback users who accidentally uncover the stick sensor and get a limp stick, if that happens at high speed, its an insta wing snap).

In my glider sim, we have a setting that may be helpful here without being unrealistic. Its called "stick force simulation". It has nothing to do with force feedback, but it "simulates" the reality that at high speeds, moving the stick requires a lot of force and the pilot has no infinite strength. I dont know how heavy the control are in a real tomcat, but Id be surprised if at mach 1 you could flip the stick remotely as easily as a PC joystick. The stick force simulation settings slows down your input at high speeds ( to simulate a heavy stick), eliminating the "jerk". It isnt "fly by wire", but it does decouple joystick input from game stick input to some extend, because different physics apply to them anyway.

Also the D model with a more modern HUD (similar to the hornet one) would be great.

I also imagine in a real tomcat it would take more force on the stick to actually pull 12G than our joysticks can withstand without breaking. There is no way real pilots would do it "by accident" nor would they need to look at a small gauge somewhere in the midst of a dogfight.

 

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Im not a super fit highly trained military pilot, but at 4-5G I do begin to lose peripheral vision.

I agree with you lack of actual g forces makes it harder to interpret the G force the sim is experiencing. I’ve often thought sims should provide some visual or audible indication to compensate for that, although I am at a loss for what the correct answer is.

What you’re suggesting I think is that the artificial feel for the stick force necessary is to deflect flight controls is a function of speed and is set very high at certain speeds to prevent the Tomcat from exceeding its design envelope... no idea if this is true or not. Guess I should read the manual...

If HB let us easily over stress the airplane then I assume it is possible for a normal pilot to do the same?

I’ve done a little bit of real g’s too on a few occasions but didn’t have any noticeable visual effects. So, maybe the answer is to give users some options to customize the g effects to their preferences, at least to some extent.

it will be really good if heatblur implement this system on the tomcat B in order to avoid THE WINGS TO BREAK everytime you need to make a strong turn at 0.8 match or more even if is not realistic.

If I were you, I'd drop the "add unrealistic features, so I can keep doing things wrong" attitude, it'll do you no good, you'll never learn to fly properly like this.

If you're breaking the wings, it means two things:

- You're used to jerking the stick when you shouldn't

- Your joystick curves need tweaking

I What you’re suggesting I think is that the artificial feel for the stick force necessary is to deflect flight controls is a function of speed and is set very high at certain speeds to prevent the Tomcat from exceeding its design envelope...

No, not related to the design enveloppe per se. Just related to how much force it requires to actually move the stick. Which may help prevent snapping wings.

In condor I can still easily snap my wings even if I set stick force simulation to max, the point there is also not to provide a cheat to prevent that, its actually intended to be more realistic and disallow instantaneous stick movements particularly in roll when flying at high speed. Which you cant really do IRL unless you have almost superhuman strength, in most gliders at speed its going to take you a a few seconds to push that stick from full left to full right unless you are either really strong or really determined. Its nothing like moving the stick at regular cruising speeds (or pushing most joysticks).

no idea if this is true or not. Guess I should read the manual...

Indeed, no idea how it is in the real tomcat. At low or high speeds or if it even makes a difference. Unlike in my glider, they do have hydraulics. They could make it as light as they want, I just highly doubt they made it super light and I would expect them to make it so its light at low speeds and a lot harder at high speeds. Well, even if they dont vary the hydraulic power, the aerodynamics would do that anyhow.

If HB let us easily over stress the airplane then I assume it is possible for a normal pilot to do the same?

of course. But it would require more deliberate "effort". We cant really simulate that effort without (much stronger) force feedback, but time is a way to mimic it. Keep pulling on your joystick and your virtual pilot will use more strength. In my glider sim, its configurable, more or less mimicking how much force you would be applying IRL. The same setting will have no impact on the ground as the stick is numb there, and an increasing impact with speed/stick force.

I’ve done a little bit of real g’s too on a few occasions but didn’t have any noticeable visual effects. So, maybe the answer is to give users some options to customize the g effects to their preferences, at least to some extent.

On hindsight, Im actually fine with the current blackout modelling especially in sustained turns. Im just surprised how easy it is to pull 10-20G briefly if you are careless with the stick.No idea if a 1 second 15G pull should cause a blackout. I do feel confident you'd notice though :) so maybe even if IRL you wouldnt black out that soon, giving us at least some feedback we are doing something no real pilot would ever do, would be a good idea. Even if its just a blackout with almost instant recovery.

never managed to rip them off.... what am I doing wrong? ;-)

Ditto