DCS World 2.0 and New Maps Discussion Thread

I can testify that bubble can work in multiplayer.

The reason the bubble concept fails is that the main point in "Simulation" is to provide a large living environment that supports actions/activities independent of direct human interaction. Just like things don't cease to exist or stop happening in real life just because they aren't in your line of sight. The exact things that separate simulation from games, are the attempts at realism and scale.

That said the biggest problem currently is that the sim/engine has no real way to make sense of current hardware to use it at its fullest potential. A good portion of that ties to the DX9 API. That fact alone relies too heavily on single core IPC, and no DX9 titles I've ever encountered manage to make real use of more than 2 cores. When they first announced the A-10C, DX11 consideration was mentioned and really the only thing that excited me. That was shelved right along with Nevada. Even if they can't figure out some method of multi-threaded AI calculations, the rendering can be as better provided by the API itself.

"where as in DCS World if you put a tank battle on the other side of the map, its a tank battle going on on the other side of the map"

This is where improvements should be focus as well, Should have a way to ovoid calculating something that is way too far but giving just infos at a closer range

A problem with "The bubble" is that if you statistically calculate the outcome of engagements that are outside of the player's bubble, the battle may play out differently from a physical simulation of the battle. So you could actually end up with situations where one team wins or loses just based on the location of a spectator viewing the map.

I appreciate the answers guys and I know I often sound like one but I'd like to think I'm not a complete idiot :idiot: (=> that's not a selfie)

I'll go as far as claiming I do understand (in my own way, maybe) the compromises ED -and any other dev- faces

http://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=1408121&postcount=78

http://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=1407885&postcount=70

The last thing I wanted was to start a comparison between DCS and XXX game, blame Sith for that :P

I was just expressing my lack of amazement concerning the ground textures.

Not what is far away in the distance (that looks good IMO) but the ones directly under the plane

But yeah it's still WIP and we should wait to see how it looks like in motion.

I didn't know why I was impressed by the caucasus map so I went digging for all the pics and vids available and actually, like NoJoe, what I find the most impressive is the clouds and the lighting. Nothing to do with ground textures :dunno:

I'm not trying to start this discussion all over again, I'm not trying to get more answers, I just wanted to clarify what I said earlier.

A problem with "The bubble"

Also games with bubble eventually suffer from the disappearing bullet problem, and no one wants their MLRS DPICM disappearing.

...and as I just realized, this would make our .trk replay system impossible.

It's not too spectacular right now.

I can testify that bubble can work in multiplayer.

Depends on what you consider as "works"... you may bubble the graphics part, which will reduce the load on the rendering engine (and I think EDGE does this already), but it won't work well on the AI / battles / communications calculations. Just consider the ME and its Trigger/scripting engine... "If bomb in zone then message" oh sorry, wrong "bubble"?

The problems here are similar to the multithreading / multi core issues. Nice idea, but not so easy...

The reason the bubble concept fails is that the main point in "Simulation" is to provide a large living environment that supports actions/activities independent of direct human interaction.

Where clients are there are bubbles and there will be "simulation".

As an A10 or Ka50 pilot for example I do not care if 120 miles away a battle is "simulated" by AI behaviour or won/lost by calculations.

Depends on what you consider as "works"... you may bubble the graphics part, which will reduce the load on the rendering engine (and I think EDGE does this already), but it won't work well on the AI / battles / communications calculations. Just consider the ME and its Trigger/scripting engine... "If bomb in zone then message" oh sorry, wrong "bubble"?

I see bubble working in MP 2-3 days a week. It works not just for the graphics part.

And if a client drops in his bubble a bomb over the trigger zone the trigger could activated by his side. (btw does the bomb in zone trigger works now in MP?)

Will edge bring co-op cockpits?

Thank you again. Can't wait.

I appreciate the answers guys and I know I often sound like one but I'd like to think I'm not a complete idiot :idiot: (=> that's not a selfie)

I'll go as far as claiming I do understand (in my own way, maybe) the compromises ED -and any other dev- faces

http://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=1408121&postcount=78

http://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=1407885&postcount=70

 

The last thing I wanted was to start a comparison between DCS and XXX game, blame Sith for that :P

 

I was just expressing my lack of amazement concerning the ground textures.

Not what is far away in the distance (that looks good IMO) but the ones directly under the plane

 

 

But yeah it's still WIP and we should wait to see how it looks like in motion.

 

I didn't know why I was impressed by the caucasus map so I went digging for all the pics and vids available and actually, like NoJoe, what I find the most impressive is the clouds and the lighting. Nothing to do with ground textures :dunno:

 

I'm not trying to start this discussion all over again, I'm not trying to get more answers, I just wanted to clarify what I said earlier.

Careful; I upset quite a number of people saying the same thing in another thread. It is WIP but considering this issue has remained since we first saw EDGE screen shots and with December only having 25 days left, I fear it will be delayed yet again. This is no small issue and if they can fix it in the next 3 weeks then that would be great. But that, IMO, is certainly a reason to hold the game back because it would be game breaking bad.

Careful; I upset quite a number of people saying the same thing in another thread. It is WIP but considering this issue has remained since we first saw EDGE screen shots and with December only having 25 days left, I fear it will be delayed yet again. This is no small issue and if they can fix it in the next 3 weeks then that would be great. But that, IMO, is certainly a reason to hold the game back because it would be game breaking bad.

Looks OK to me, I fly over desert (ours is a lot redder than Nevada) a lot and it looks fine. I also suspect there will be areas of high detail and areas of less detail. For such a large area it is unfeasible to manually add details everywhere and generating it procedurally creates it's own problems. Looks like they might have done a good job on the detail/performance/feasibility compromise (it's hard to know what it will be like in-game from screenshots). I will wait for release and see it for my own eyes before lodging complaints.

Looks OK to me, I fly over desert (ours is a lot redder than Nevada) a lot and it looks fine. I also suspect there will be areas of high detail and areas of less detail. For such a large area it is unfeasible to manually add details everywhere and generating it procedurally creates it's own problems. Looks like they might have done a good job on the detail/performance/feasibility compromise (it's hard to know what it will be like in-game from screenshots). I will wait for release and see it for my own eyes before lodging complaints.

Guys you also have to take into account that ED will work on the graphics even after the release of the map. And even if they dont someone else will, DCS has always been highly moddable which is one of its many draws. There is no reason to think that things will be any different with 2.0 and EDGE.

Guys you also have to take into account that ED will work on the graphics even after the release of the map. And even if they dont someone else will, DCS has always been highly moddable which is one of its many draws. There is no reason to think that things will be any different with 2.0 and EDGE.

Point taken and I agree. Hopefully all the work on this will transfer to making new maps quicker to make and better to look at.

DCS World 2 and EDGE

Are these the same thing?

EDGE is "only" the new graphics engine, which will be included in DCS World 2 (and is the main reason for that number as well, if I'm not mistaken).

So no, they're not the same thing, but they are closely related.

Not exactly as I understand. DCS 2.0 is the program version that features the release of EDGE which is the new rendering engine with better performance, stunning graphics and some new maps afterwards :joystick:

The way I understand it is that EDGE became 2.0 because the update is going to be a major overhaul of DCS instead of just a rendering engine upgrade.

Are these the same thing?

EDGE = Eagle Dynamics Graphics Engine. Name of the new engine they're developing.

DCS 2.0 = next major version that will bring EDGE together with many other improvements (TBD). They wanted to call it 1.3.0 at first, but then changed to 2.0 because it sounds better.

Maybe this is already answered, but what will happen to the current map? Will it run with the new engine?

Caucasus map will work with the new engine, but only use a limited quantity of new features of the EDGE. Require a complete rework to improve them to the level of future NTTR / Hormuz / Normandy WW2 Maps.

Look here, none of us has any clue if they even maxed the settings for those screen shots. Some of you people need to know that they, ED, concern themselves with not disappointing their customers than wowing them. Weird, yes, but also refreshing in a morbid, self destruction sort of way.

So...the way I see it is there is hope. Always. With this bunch you trust. If you've been here as long as I have, you ought to know ED pride themselves this way. Just bam, there then we'll sat here stunned waving money at them screaming you take it, take! Be sure you tape them mandible good when 2.0 is loading. :D

You sometimes get surprised, just the last update added the dust swirl effect to the Huey, fixed the CA driver acceleration Axis command without even a hint in the changelog!

They just put it in. Job done!

As for EDGE, it will be better than what the current engine provides... it may not look like FarCry4 or whatnot, but I'm fine with that.

The move to implement a new rendering engine that enables new, better maps, can handle more objects, two cloudlayers, terrain selfshading, better reflections etc. is a huge step forward...

In the end even now the terrain in its dimension is pretty detailed and with a few tweaks and mods up to par or better than any other flight SIM currently available.

Now any improvement to the visuals are icing on the cake.

In the next maps they will learn what EDGE can or can not do. Learn how to tweak and optimize the Maps and enhance it step by step.

They did this with the current engine and won't just drop EDGE and be done with it.

I guess we will start DCS World 2 0 for the first time and compared to what we have now, it WILL be a considerable improvement aka mindblowing!

For those people saying the texturing looks bad on the NTTR map, if I remember correctly DCS 2.0 is bringing proper Depth Of Field effects to the table, and you can clearly see the focus happens to be on the aircraft in those shots.

Just be something you might want to take into consideration.