Strange startup anomaly

It seems to me that I can only ever start the AV8 from cold (no APR) at the second attempt, i.e. after failing the first time and restarting the mission. I have a good, reliable startup checklist but whether I follow that to the letter or just do the necessary steps to get the engine running, at the first attempt I can hear something spool up but taking the Warthog throttle out of its idle detent does not increase the RPM or output turbine power and I'm now stuck. When I restart the mission, I perform exactly the same sequence of actions and it starts up successfully.

I have a theory that it might be about the Warthog, the infamous parking brake and this particular a/c's state when started from cold. There might be a logic conflict involving each element's condition on initial startup that somehow gets resolved after a failed attempt. Can anyone help? Many thanks.

Strange startup anomaly

I know this is a silly question but...are you sure that the engine cutoff is assigned to the detention switch?

Can you post a picture of your horas key assignment?

Killing time in the bathroom, honey bring me some matches...fewwwwww.

I'm using NOiD's very well-crafted profile for the AV8 and the Warthog HOTAS. I am not competent with the TARGET editor so I am not sure how he programmed the throttle detent but I am pretty sure it works as intended...except in this one instance, which seems to be an anomaly.

Yeah the throttle cutoff seems to be the issue for most harrier startup issues. Can you click it in the pit?

Yeah the throttle cutoff seems to be the issue for most harrier startup issues. Can you click it in the pit?

You mean move it out of idle cutoff using the mouse in the pit rather than physically moving the throttle? Interesting. I will try as soon as I am back in the sim.

Yeah if its a mapping issue.

I fly VR so while I have the detent mapped to my throttle sometimes I have to click it in the pit which is mostly a non issue.

Here's my successful M.O.: I disengage the parking brake as soon as I hit the cockpit for a cold start, otherwise the sim will not respond to throttle movement later when I need to take it out of idle. After I get the engine spooling I re-engage the parking brake, but only after taking the throttle out of the idle detent. This is the only workaround there is for me, I think.

The biggest problem with the in-cockpit cutoff and TM Throttle is that the in-cockpit throttle uses the TM Throttle lever motion to move from Stop to Idle.

If you use the standard calibration for the TM Throttle, you only have axis motion from the Idle position forward. From Idle backwards, you only have button activation. When you lift over Idle to Stop, there is no axis translation; you only get button 30 for the right-hand lever, and 29 for the left.

This works for killing the engine in the AV-8B, if you configure button 30 to Throttle Cutoff, because pressing Throttle Cutoff actually pulls the in-cockpit throttle all they way back to cutoff, regardless of the actual controller lever position.

However, releasing button 30 does not reverse the in-cockpit lever motion. You must actually advance the in-cockpit throttle lever the distance from the Cutoff position to the Idle position, and to do that with the standard TH Throttle calibration, you must advance your TM Throttle from it's default idle position a couple of centimeters, which means the TM Throttle Idle is not the same as the in-cockpit Idle.

If fix that, you need to use a trick during calibration: A way to change the Warthog Throttle behavior, some may not know about, which doesn't actually work as described here, for me anymore, and I have no idea why. If I run the calibration and leave the right throttle all the way back, it doesn't activate button 30, but it has the full axis range. I have to advance the throttle about a cm from stop to get button 30 and most of the axis motion, but it's a fidgety trail-n-error exercise to get the button and most possible axis motion.

Thank you for this useful information. There is definitely something out of sync between the Harrier's throttle/wheelbrake setup and the TM Warthog throttle's idle-cutoff to idle translation. Bringing the throttle out of idle and into minimum power input does not register, as you say, and to get the Harrier's engine to spool, I have to bump it up momentarily, at which point it "wakes up". Making matters worse is the fact that (I think) I have to do this with the parking brake disengaged, or that sabotages the throttle's required input too. Still I am happy to live with this workaround although my ground crew would not be happy. (I always re-engage the parking brake after I've lit up the engine successfully).

Thank you for this useful information. There is definitely something out of sync between the Harrier's throttle/wheelbrake setup

What? No, there isn't. That's one part that works fine.

and the TM Warthog throttle's idle-cutoff to idle translation.

Throttle-cutoff, not idle-cutoff.

Or the AV-8B's behavior. That the TM Warthog HOTAS Throttle has per default no axis translation between Stop and Idle is world-wide the norm. That the AV-8B expects it to, is not.

Bringing the throttle out of idle and into minimum power

Idle IS minimum power.

You could say that "Stop" is the same as Cutoff, because if you move your controller lever to this position, it activates the a button, which you can bind to Cutoff.

input does not register, as you say, and to get the Harrier's engine to spool, I have to bump it up momentarily, at which point it "wakes up". Making matters worse is the fact that (I think) I have to do this with the parking brake disengaged, or that sabotages the throttle's required input too. Still I am happy to live with this workaround although my ground crew would not be happy. (I always re-engage the parking brake after I've lit up the engine successfully).

In the cockpit, you must move the throttle from "Stop" to "Idle" to start the engine.

The problem is, that per default the TM Warthog HOTAS Throttle is calibrated so that between "Stop" and "Idle" no lever motion is translated to axis motion; axis motion being that which is registered by the game.

IF the Throttle-Cutoff button were configured as "On = Cutoff, Not On = throttle to idle", there would be no issues for anyone using the TM Warthog Throttle.

You can overcome this as I stated in my previous post, be re-calibrating your throttle.

I've written a question to TM about the calibration, about why the buttons don't register if you calibrate the idle position at the stop position. We'll see if they answer.

Throttle 01.bmp

I am so fed up with this inability to start the Harrier without restarting the mission (then it starts when I go through exactly the same procedure...most of the time). Orso, could you possibly explain, as though to an intelligent newb, exactly how to recalibrate your throttle to avoid this dance?

Honestly I just click the cutoff it in the actual pit to make sure the controls synched right upon startup. I have the cutoff mapped to my warthog but I mainly use that to shut off the jet rather than start it.

With regards to the throttle/startup this is what I do: When entering the plane, pull the back the throttle to idle (not cutoff), manually/visually click the cutoff and watch the in game throttle move to cutoff. Leave parking brake on. Go through startup, after hitting the engine start wait a few secs for the initial engine spool, then move the throttle fwd a touch to get the full spool up. Finish startup.

Honestly I just click the cutoff it in the actual pit to make sure the controls synched right upon startup. I have the cutoff mapped to my warthog but I mainly use that to shut off the jet rather than start it.

 

With regards to the throttle/startup this is what I do: When entering the plane, pull the back the throttle to idle (not cutoff), manually/visually click the cutoff and watch the in game throttle move to cutoff. Leave parking brake on. Go through startup, after hitting the engine start wait a few secs for the initial engine spool, then move the throttle fwd a touch to get the full spool up. Finish startup.

This could be really helpful to me thank you very much indeed.

This could be really helpful to me thank you very much indeed.

No worries glad to help. I can also give you my 5 switch startup. Not realistic but it works, and when you are playing aero quake, who cares.