Behavior of AMRAAM

When the missile comes off the rail in HPRF (Maddog) mode, what will it do if it's target is destroyed prior to impact? Will it seek another target? It seems to me that you could waste a lot of ordinance using this mode. If I have four missiles and four incoming bandits that fit within the 10nm circle, will the missiles each take a target and reject others that are already locked, or could all four go to the same bandit?

If the target is destroyed it will attempt to find another target along its trajectory. If you have four incoming bandits you typically wouldn't fire four missiles in that "fashion." You might Maddog on one, turn away, get some distance and then reengage hoping that the missile eliminated one target or caused 1 or more bandits to go defensive.

You could lock on to one target, fire and as soon as it went pitbul, do it again on another bandit. Depending on the distance you could get multiple shots off before you are merged with the remaining bandits.

To really engage multiple bandits in the scenario you described, you'd best wait until TWS is implemented with the ability to launch on multiple targets - simultaneously.

If the target is destroyed it will attempt to find another target along its trajectory. If you have four incoming bandits you typically wouldn't fire four missiles in that "fashion." You might Maddog on one, turn away, get some distance and then reengage hoping that the missile eliminated one target or caused 1 or more bandits to go defensive.

 

You could lock on to one target, fire and as soon as it went pitbul, do it again on another bandit. Depending on the distance you could get multiple shots off before you are merged with the remaining bandits.

 

To really engage multiple bandits in the scenario you described, you'd best wait until TWS is implemented with the ability to launch on multiple targets - simultaneously.

Yes, thought as much. But then where would you place this new "Visual" mode in efficacy level with TWS and Boresight ACM mode? I mean, isn't our current BST mode better at picking and choosing close proximity tgts than this Maddog method? And, in a furball, I'd hate to even risk using this for fear of a friendly kill. So, I'm wondering what scenarios this would be better than TWS or BST (ACM)

Furthermore, this method does not involve IFF, correct? Well, Boresight does. So how is Maddog better than Boresight or ANY of the STT methods?

I was just wondering if this method would be useful for when your radar is knocked out? Would we be able to deploy with no radar in this fashion?

maddog isn't meant to be used, it's a fallback mode in case of FCR fail.

i mean, if you are talking about the same maddog mode that i am.

maddog isn't meant to be used, it's a fallback mode in case of FCR fail.

 

 

i mean, if you are talking about the same maddog mode that i am.

Or by accident....:music_whistling:

post by dooom

WANTED: AMRAAM lost near border

I guess he use the ‘snapshot’ option here when in a play dogfight and luckily it missed.

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maddog isn't meant to be used, it's a fallback mode in case of FCR fail.

 

 

i mean, if you are talking about the same maddog mode that i am.

Yeah, exactly what I was thinking of. Just wondering how much this new feature is worth...not much I guess

Furthermore, this method does not involve IFF, correct? Well, Boresight does. So how is Maddog better than Boresight or ANY of the STT methods?

 

 

I was just wondering if this method would be useful for when your radar is knocked out? Would we be able to deploy with no radar in this fashion?

I, typically, use it if I had not picked up the enemy on radar and I saw that he launched on me. I'd try to fire a Maddog his way and then immediately go defensive.

I, typically, use it if I had not picked up the enemy on radar and I saw that he launched on me. I'd try to fire a Maddog his way and then immediately go defensive.

Interesting..what if you also had heaters? Would you still go with the 120? Let's say, for example, you get a call for help from your wingman and you arrive seeing he's in a guns fight and you have a 120 and a 9M. Which would you use and what radar mode?

Interesting..what if you also had heaters? Would you still go with the 120? Let's say, for example, you get a call for help from your wingman and you arrive seeing he's in a guns fight and you have a 120 and a 9M. Which would you use and what radar mode?

If my wingman is in a "guns fight" with a bandit, I'm not launching a "Maddog" into the fray. I would first get PID of my wingman and the bandit, then depending on distance I would pick the best weapon for the job. Most likely that would be a Fox 2, unless we had gotten separated at a distance where visual ID would be prohibitive.

Why not use boresight..if you get a diamond, bang, done...if you get square, relock, bang done..all this can be done with boresight quickly...provided , of course, that you're within this radar mode's envelope

Why not use boresight..if you get a diamond, bang, done...if you get square, relock, bang done..all this can be done with boresight quickly...provided , of course, that you're within this radar mode's envelope

You're assuming that you can see the aircraft out there to get inside of the boresight circle.

If you could see your wingman in trouble then it’s WVR and ACM radar modes and sidewinders/guns would be more suitable. Aim120s could also be used if you aren’t too close. No maddogs for the reasons already stated above. A maddog is quite as the name implies - a mad dog - unpredictable as to whether it will go after the right target.

You're assuming that you can see the aircraft out there to get inside of the boresight circle.

Yes, that's why I said provided you're within the envelope (ACM)...but what did you mean about "PID"?

Ok maybe my fault here, but I always took ACM to mean WVR (Within Visual Range)...it'd be nice if there's a list of abbreviations or acronyms and their meaning...:)

Never fire an AIM-120 into a furball. Even if you are 100% certain you have the bandit locked, the missile can still potentially target a friendly when it goes active.

Even an AIM-9 is dangerous to fire in the circumstances you're describing. You must first establish some sort of clear separation to ensure the missile doesn't target a friendly.

Never fire an AIM-120 into a furball. Even if you are 100% certain you have the bandit locked, the missile can still potentially target a friendly when it goes active.

Even an AIM-9 is dangerous to fire in the circumstances you're describing. You must first establish some sort of clear separation to ensure the missile doesn't target a friendly.

Yep and Boresight offers STT and IFF, so you're not really guessing

Never fire an AIM-120 into a furball. Even if you are 100% certain you have the bandit locked, the missile can still potentially target a friendly when it goes active.

Even an AIM-9 is dangerous to fire in the circumstances you're describing. You must first establish some sort of clear separation to ensure the missile doesn't target a friendly.

Also, it'd be interesting to know what the ROE says about "some sort of clear separation", because this seems a bit arbitrary or subjective...but, yes some common sense about firing into a furball is called for

Yes, that's why I said provided you're within the envelope (ACM)...but what did you mean about "PID"?

PID = Positive ID

PID = Positive ID

Thanks, but what constitutes that? Electronics (IFF) or "your eyes"? I just want to make sure I understand what "positive" means

Thanks, but what constitutes that? Electronics (IFF) or "your eyes"? I just want to make sure I understand what "positive" means

In real life that is dictated by ROEs (Rules of Engagement). Typically it means visually identifying your target. In the virtual world where no real lives are lost you can use Raygun call to your wingman/friendlies, IFF, AWACS when the Hornet gets the declare function - etc...

Which AIM-120s are working?

I was flying a CAP mission with my virtual squadron last Wednesday. I put 120B's on, but I had no HUD symbology and my radar wasn't scanning at all.

Which AIM-120s are working?

 

I was flying a CAP mission with my virtual squadron last Wednesday. I put 120B's on, but I had no HUD symbology and my radar wasn't scanning at all.

You will need to designate a target to get the hud symbologies

In real life we were taught never to fire a Fox 2 if your wingman was in the HUD field of view. A fox 1 was more useable due to stt but still balsy shot and you still need decent angular separation.

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Thanks, but what constitutes that? Electronics (IFF) or "your eyes"? I just want to make sure I understand what "positive" means

That again depends on the ROE for the Theater of Operations. Visual ID has been the go-to requirement for some time in the recent conflicts that the US has been involved in. I cannot speak for other nations as I am unfamiliar with their philosophies when not working in conjunction with US forces.