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[REPORTED] RWS radar stabilization and tracking loss


KungFu

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Wanted to see if anyone else is getting this or if I'm doing something wrong (must be, because there is no way in the world this would make it through testing) before I put in a bug report:

 

Locked up a target that was at my 12 co alt. Radar seems to lock fine, but the target designation on the HUD stays in one location, like at 8 o'clock. No amount of movement will bring it to center.

 

Repeated this with several aircraft hostile and friendly.

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Track file, excuse the sloppy cat lineup, not used to new behavior on deck.

f18Radar.trk

Win 11 Professional, I7-12700K, 32GB DDR5, 3090, 2x 980 PRO PCIe 4.0 NVMe , 2x VKB Gunfighter mk III, MCG Ultimate, SCG, Orion 2 Throttle, Thrustmaster TPR pedals, Pimax Crystal 

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I have the same. Did wonder if the process has changed with the update.

System: 9700, 64GB DDR4, 2070S, NVME2, Rift S, Jetseat, Thrustmaster F18 grip, VPC T50 stick base and throttle, CH Throttle, MFG crosswinds, custom button box, Logitech G502 and Marble mouse.

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I watched the track, and it's odd indeed. It worked fine for me today: I locked up and destroyed 4 aircraft today, and locked up 2 friendlies, all without issues.

 

It's probably not related, but just in case: did you clear out your fxo and metashaders2 folders after installing today's update? Otherwise, maybe a repair would help? Or check your bindings for radar elevation: maybe the axis is "stuck"?

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Yeah I always clean out those before updating, but did again just to make sure and did a repair..... no change.

 

Antennae elevation I have mapped to a 4 way hat switch and works as intended looks like

 

Same behavior on several missions

Win 11 Professional, I7-12700K, 32GB DDR5, 3090, 2x 980 PRO PCIe 4.0 NVMe , 2x VKB Gunfighter mk III, MCG Ultimate, SCG, Orion 2 Throttle, Thrustmaster TPR pedals, Pimax Crystal 

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I report the same problem, Both the radar screen and HUD symbology regarding the lock stays frozen after regular lock after update 7

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Noticed similar behavior. Cage or uncage moves the velocity vector relative to the true direction of your nose when master arm is off.

 

If I press tdc depress with an aim 9 and nothing locked the reticle locks on to something in the distance on the HUD right below the 5 degree mark on the HUD. I turned off master arm and still had the radar up and pressing cage/uncage did the same thing rather than show the true velocity vector. I may be doing something wrong but I thought this was strange.

 

Radar elevation is now fixed though I can move it up and down without issues.

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With a number of us experiencing the same , does imply that this is a bug, and not a local issue.

System: 9700, 64GB DDR4, 2070S, NVME2, Rift S, Jetseat, Thrustmaster F18 grip, VPC T50 stick base and throttle, CH Throttle, MFG crosswinds, custom button box, Logitech G502 and Marble mouse.

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With a number of us experiencing the same , does imply that this is a bug, and not a local issue.

Yes, I'd say it's safe to say that: I have had it happen a few times now as well. Not every time, but enough to confirm this behaviour.

 

 

Also became much harder to lock targets in boresight and vertical autoacquire mode.

This I can also confirm.

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OpenXR | PD 1.0 | 100% render resolution | DCS "HIGH" preset

 

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[REPORTED] RWS radar stabilization and tracking loss

 

Hello,

I'd testing the current RWS and the locking time must to be around 0.5s using the 6 bars, at now it's like 3s to 4s.

I only found an APG-68 public video, but the 65/73 performs almost the same on locking time:

 

Also i'd found some radar problems, the numbers are the old video time to see it:

  • When you change the rotation direction -> 0:10
  • High G drift with high angle -> 0:29, 4:20
  • Problems with the radar locking and cursor move -> 0:53
  • Fast rotation at very low speed -> 1:26
  • Fast rotation at high elevation angle -> 1:42
  • Fast rotation at level -> 5:14
  • Slow rotation when the contact is far from the center in azimuth -> 2:45, 3:10, 4:01 and 4:41
  • No memory follow while locking -> 4:36

Update:

Still present in 2.5.2.19682@openbeta.

Video 2 link: https://streamable.com/ry7hk

Video 1 link: https://streamable.com/rafgb

Tracks attached: in post #22

 

 

Old video:

Video link: https://streamable.com/i8b1l

Track attached: 18-radar_track1.trk

 

Thank you ED a lot for this module :)

Regards.

18-radar_track1.trk


Edited by riojax
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If it is a bug, I would think it would be something related to something specific on our setup/systems because if it was widespread it would have been caught during testing and we'd see every hornet pilot reporting issues.

 

The only mod I have on DCS is SRS, highly doubt that would cause this but being a systems engineer for 20 years I don't rule anything out.


Edited by KungFu

Win 11 Professional, I7-12700K, 32GB DDR5, 3090, 2x 980 PRO PCIe 4.0 NVMe , 2x VKB Gunfighter mk III, MCG Ultimate, SCG, Orion 2 Throttle, Thrustmaster TPR pedals, Pimax Crystal 

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Footage of the APG-63 (same radar family as 65/73) shows lock-ons averaging about 2 seconds from initiation to lock-on.

 

Look around the 6 minute mark here:

 

When you change the rotation direction -> 0:10

 

Yes, that is not realistic. ED must think that the antenna must be stable (or oriented upright from the earth) in order to detect and track targets.. This is not the case. In the same sense, the target does not need to be in level flight for the radar to detect it. As long as the target is in the cone of the antenna, it can continue to track it, regardless if the antenna cannot roll anymore. The antenna only rolls in the first place to keep the guard antenna towards the ground (sidelobe reduction). Once a target is being tracked, sidelobes dont really matter because the radar will use range gate tracking (ignoring returns not immediately around the range of the target) and thus not be affected by close range returns from the ground.

 

The extreme antenna roll would only have a minor effect in search modes in at low altitude (strong ground return) where range gating isnt being used (because your searching all ranges). Even then it wouldn't necessarily prevent you from detecting targets, it would just lower your detection range/probability (due to worse than normal signal to noise ratio).

 

If they applied this same logic to the Flanker (which has its guard antenna fixed to the bottom frame of the aircraft, meaning it doesn't rotate to keep facing the ground) it wouldn't be able to use its radar at all if the plane wasn't in perfect level flight.

 

High G drift with high angle -> 0:29, 4:20

 

I imagine that has to do with similar coding to the rotation issue mentioned above.

 

Problems with the radar locking and cursor move -> 0:53

 

Ed seems to have set the lock-on mechanic to the area on the display rather than the range/cell (ie position in space). When you turn, the radar should continue to look for the target at that position in space, not at that column on the display. Meaning if you turn right when trying to lock a target, the radar beam should look like its moving left. (its using the true bearing from your aircraft to find the target, not the aircraft relative bearing.

 

Im also not sure if ED realizes that the radar is also only trying to lock a target at within the range cell of the brick, meaning it should be impossible to lock a target on the same bearing that is at a different range. It'll also used the doppler information attached to the brick to sort even further when trying to lock it.

 

Fast rotation at very low speed -> 1:26

Fast rotation at high elevation angle -> 1:42

Fast rotation at level -> 5:14

Slow rotation when the contact is far from the center in azimuth -> 2:45, 3:10, 4:01 and 4:41

 

Same as my first statement.

 

No memory follow while locking -> 4:36

 

Not implemented yet.

 

 

Something else that no one has brought up before. The radar bricks move properly in azimuth when you turn, but they dont move in range as you fly closer to them. I'm not sure if this is accurate or not.

 

But what this means is that if your closing in behind someone who is flying away, the bricks will actually look like they'll flying toward you as the newest bricks will be closer. This can confuse the pilot as to the direction the contact is flying via bricks alone. If the bricks were locked to a position in space (that was my initial assumption) they would appear to slowly move toward you as you flew toward that position in space until they aged out.

 

What I do know is that bricks are a static representation of raw hits at a precise time in space. The question is, is it static to a position on the earth (like a LAT/LONG) or static to the display.

 

We know its not static to the display in azimuth (bricks "move" side to side when you turn. real footage shows this to be true). So if the brick moves relative to your aspect, shouldn't it also move relative to your position.


Edited by Beamscanner
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In my case neither the 7s or the 9s work properly, same issue.

Win 11 Professional, I7-12700K, 32GB DDR5, 3090, 2x 980 PRO PCIe 4.0 NVMe , 2x VKB Gunfighter mk III, MCG Ultimate, SCG, Orion 2 Throttle, Thrustmaster TPR pedals, Pimax Crystal 

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Footage of the APG-63 (same radar family as 65/73) shows lock-ons averaging about 2 seconds from initiation to lock-on.

 

Look around the 6 minute mark here:

 

I'm pretty sure that it takes around 0.5s to lock, also i'm checking the video (thanks a lot for this interesting footage) and it seems to take around 0.5s (like 0.2 to 0.8s) for example: 6:17, 6:42 and 6:55

The last one (6:55) is very interesting, because it's almost the same than my test on 0:29 or 4:20

 

About to the 2s lock, i did see it only when it's a close formation group and the match speed is similar like in the 7:13 of the footage (doppler issue) but this is uncommon.

 

Also thank you a lot for your post, as usual are pure gold.


Edited by riojax
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Update:

 

Flying today and there was no issue during my first flight. So maybe it was something in cache that has now been cleared.

 

Unfortunately, armed up, went out again and had the same issue, i.e. stalled radar. Was also unable to fire an AIM7m whilst in that mode.


Edited by Mr_sukebe

System: 9700, 64GB DDR4, 2070S, NVME2, Rift S, Jetseat, Thrustmaster F18 grip, VPC T50 stick base and throttle, CH Throttle, MFG crosswinds, custom button box, Logitech G502 and Marble mouse.

Server: i5 2500@3.9Ghz, 1080, 24GB DDR3, SSD.

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I had this issue flying the SP Through The Inferno mission... I'm not saying it's related to that... it's just the first mission I loaded.

 

 

 

So I loaded my own "SU33 at 2NM on 6 guns only" mission and it worked fine once I got around behind him but the diamond did seem to update slowly... as in it seemed to only update at about 10FPS...

 

 

Aim9 worked fine. Aim 7 fired but didn't track.

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Same bug. STT and the track freezes in space as well as the HUD symbology, my friends have it too. You can lock other things and sometimes it updates, I had some good results with boresight mode, but its absolutely broken and unuseable. Was fine before.

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Same here...

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Ref the comment about Inferno, I was flying in that mission.

I’ll test tonight in a more simple mission

System: 9700, 64GB DDR4, 2070S, NVME2, Rift S, Jetseat, Thrustmaster F18 grip, VPC T50 stick base and throttle, CH Throttle, MFG crosswinds, custom button box, Logitech G502 and Marble mouse.

Server: i5 2500@3.9Ghz, 1080, 24GB DDR3, SSD.

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