Have the Hornet devs moved back from the Viper? - Page 17 - ED Forums
 


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Old 11-11-2019, 09:54 AM   #161
Baldrick33
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Originally Posted by Arctander View Post
And lastly - with all of this going on, which I think everyone objectively can understand the community frustrations, I am yet to see any acknowledgement from Ed that doing it in this way has been a mistake in the eyes of many.
Have you considered they might not agree with you and that you do not represent any form of consensus with your view?

If you look at the recent reviews of DCS on Steam they are "Very Positive" (Steam's words not mine). We have no visibility of the sales of modules or the purchasing trends which would be indicative of any strategic business "mistake".

How are the "eyes of many" determined? An unhappy majority or a small vocal minority? Sure the latter can be unsettling as bad press. Yet it seems to me attempts to actually explain the process in this thread by ED staff are simply ignored with some expectation of agreement with a theory on how they should run their business which just isn't going to happen.
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Old 11-11-2019, 10:00 AM   #162
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I understand that ED needs EA to generate income and it gives us a great opportunity to wrestle with planes a little earlier. However, there seems to be disconnect between the expectactions of a part of community and the actual EA model by ED. Regardless of whether the community is overreacting/not understanding the EA model or whether ED is at fault, I reckon that a considerable number of EA sales are returning customers and already part of the DCS community. So the current negative sentiment within the Hornet community, again regardless of whether it is grounded or not, may also be hurting ED's future EA sales. There is a considerable number of people that have already mentioned they would no longer participate in EA in its current format. What I am a bit surprised though is ED's reluctance to nip this unrest in the bud. Throw some bones at the hornet community; for example, while there used to be frequent mini-updates these are now more or less once a month. The community manager's "we'll update you once we have something" is of course a bit easy. There is always something to update, it doesn't have to be a new weapon system every time; post a screenshot, do a brief dev interview, explain in a post why coding TWS is not straightforward, or why PB on the HARM takes longer that the PB modes of a JDAM, etc. Create some understanding and transparency in the community. Then again, it could also be that the unhappy hornet community is just a fraction of an overall satisfied consumer base and the current long EA period does not impact future sales, I guess only ED knows the answer to that.
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Old 11-11-2019, 10:20 AM   #163
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Originally Posted by Baldrick33 View Post
Have you considered they might not agree with you and that you do not represent any form of consensus with your view?
Well if s/he doesn't express their view, those with a similar view aren't going to be able to form a consensus are they. These types of threads are becoming more common, so ED should take it onboard, even if they do decide to take no particular action.

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Originally Posted by Baldrick33 View Post
...Yet it seems to me attempts to actually explain the process in this thread by ED staff are simply ignored...
Only a fraction of customers will frequent this form, an even small fraction of which will have read this thread. ED explaining in this thread is not addressing the issue.
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Old 11-11-2019, 10:32 AM   #164
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Originally Posted by Flamin_Squirrel View Post
Well if s/he doesn't express their view, those with a similar view aren't going to be able to form a consensus are they. These types of threads are becoming more common, so ED should take it onboard, even if they do decide to take no particular action.

Only a fraction of customers will frequent this form, an even small fraction of which will have read this thread. ED explaining in this thread is not addressing the issue.
To both comments I am referring to the original posters comments on page 17 of this thread, not the original.
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Old 11-11-2019, 10:54 AM   #165
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vincentb View Post
I understand that ED needs EA to generate income and it gives us a great opportunity to wrestle with planes a little earlier. However, there seems to be disconnect between the expectactions of a part of community and the actual EA model by ED. Regardless of whether the community is overreacting/not understanding the EA model or whether ED is at fault, I reckon that a considerable number of EA sales are returning customers and already part of the DCS community. So the current negative sentiment within the Hornet community, again regardless of whether it is grounded or not, may also be hurting ED's future EA sales. There is a considerable number of people that have already mentioned they would no longer participate in EA in its current format. What I am a bit surprised though is ED's reluctance to nip this unrest in the bud. Throw some bones at the hornet community; for example, while there used to be frequent mini-updates these are now more or less once a month. The community manager's "we'll update you once we have something" is of course a bit easy. There is always something to update, it doesn't have to be a new weapon system every time; post a screenshot, do a brief dev interview, explain in a post why coding TWS is not straightforward, or why PB on the HARM takes longer that the PB modes of a JDAM, etc. Create some understanding and transparency in the community. Then again, it could also be that the unhappy hornet community is just a fraction of an overall satisfied consumer base and the current long EA period does not impact future sales, I guess only ED knows the answer to that.
Very well said! Couldn't more agree with your statement @vincentb
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Old 11-11-2019, 10:56 AM   #166
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And lastly - with all of this going on, which I think everyone objectively can understand the community frustrations, I am yet to see any acknowledgement from Ed that doing it in this way has been a mistake in the eyes of many.
You know that on internet forums, usually not the whole client base is commenting, right? Also usually only a part of people with some sort of gripe tend to post this kind of posts, so it is skewed from the start.

I, for one, am totally happy with how fast the F-18 is progressing and how the F-16 has been introduced. And I dont run to the forums every week just to post how pleased I am. And I know other players who feel similar.

Neither you nor I know which group is a majority, or even how big each group is. People criticizing stuff tend to be more vocal about it, making that "negative" group seem bigger as it is.

In the end the only sensible thing for ED is to do what they deem right. These threads here really fill no other purpose but venting, at this point, and are not helpful at all.
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Old 11-11-2019, 11:42 AM   #167
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Although many of us will consider DCS “hardcore” there exists a niche enthusiast community within the wider customer base who are even more hardcore. I think we might be surprised how many customers find DCS to be a realistic experience compared to other combat flight sims yet don’t know the ins and outs of every aircraft and are more accepting of systems not being fully complete. They will learn about them as and when they get added.

Also my best experience of Early Access was with a rally driving simulation where the community was able to give a lot of feedback to help development. This lasted close to two years and the initial product was very bare bones. I think expectations and implementations of Early Access can vary wildly.

That said even if I don’t see myself as a hardcore combat flight simmer (I have an awful lot to learn) I do see this niche enthusiast community (who do have an in depth understanding and very high expectations of quality) to be extremely important to the developers. If the developers aspirations are for maximum realism this is the primary group for determining satisfaction of achieving those goals.

Yet from a business perspective it is highly likely this is a minority group albeit vocal on forums and isn’t necessarily a measure of commercial success.

I think it is all very well to push developers for the highest quality and complete projects yet stating it is best for their business may be wide of the mark.
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Old 11-11-2019, 12:00 PM   #168
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Originally Posted by Shimmergloom667 View Post
In the end the only sensible thing for ED is to do what they deem right. These threads here really fill no other purpose but venting, at this point, and are not helpful at all.
Nonsense. This is the primary way of dissatisfied people to make their feelings known.
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Old 11-11-2019, 12:15 PM   #169
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Yes, they have. And they won't come back soon..
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Old 11-11-2019, 12:57 PM   #170
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Yes, they have. And they won't come back soon..
then... I'll be baack
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