Have the Hornet devs moved back from the Viper? - Page 16 - ED Forums
 


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Old 11-11-2019, 02:45 AM   #151
hughlb
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The intent of this thread is starting to get fuzzy at this point.

Consider this OP - it is better for all involved, including the consumer, if two ‘big ticket’ modules are available, rather than not. If we are happy to buy, then making the product available to sell is a good thing. We then get the ultimate choice of investment.

To the subject of this thread – this is being blown way out of proportion. There is the presumption that this temporary resource reallocation to the Viper is only detrimental, without considering the advantages of shared development pathways over the course of early access. Which I can only imagine is because the OP feels one or several systems have been compromised in the immediate future. If that is the case, then it comes back to the decision made to take part in early access, a period where the order and rate of development is understood to be dynamic.

Did you buy in too soon, OP?

If it is not one or several specific features, and simply the principal of timely delivery and adequate early access product support, then consider the benefits of parallel development and don’t focus on periodic compromises, which will happen. Also use a metric of comparison - the only fair comparison would be third party developers, as they are developing the same products within the same ecosystem. They too have multi year early access periods, and manage development in parallel, especially on complex fourth gen aircraft.

Would it also be reasonable to assume that this is the only instance of resource reallocation during development of a module? I honestly don’t believe so, but I also don’t see a problem with that.

I see the only issue here being the expectation placed by some on early access. Make no mistake, we all want completed modules, and if it is missing key features when it is released out of early access, I would be asking questions too.


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Old 11-11-2019, 04:36 AM   #152
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Originally Posted by Arctander View Post
Agreed. I think they need an income stream separate from planes and maps to be able to find improvements to the core sim, and remove the reliance on pumping out EA module after EA module.

It would require I think a ‘major version’ paid update. You can choose not to update and still fly all the planes you have purchased. Paying for the update is the for the core sim, any planes purchase are licences you you for any major version release. I would expect MP servers would update to the latest versions

Anything is better than this ‘robbing Peter to pay Paul’ EA focus.
I agree, and I don't think this would kill the community. They could keep their free offering. Software that is evolving like DCS-World can justify a subscription. Of course they need to keep delivering core features, but the backlog items that people are demanding will keep them busy for a long time.
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Old 11-11-2019, 04:51 AM   #153
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Originally Posted by TOYKILLA View Post
No I think he is right,because don't buy a early access product,when you don't know what it means.

It is Final when its final and should cost 99$ then.

And please ED,don't put EA Products on Sale anymore, before the actually Product is Final.

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Ok, but that means we wouldn't have the Hornet or the Viper right now and I think I was first attracted to the product BECAUSE they had the Hornet, and frankly I don't care it's not perfect.

I know it's a sim-first product and not really for casual users, and eventually I will be as picky as half the people on this forum, but honestly they need to expand their user base quickly or die.

Am I misunderstanding you? You think they should simply never release an incomplete plane ever?
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Old 11-11-2019, 06:25 AM   #154
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Ok, but that means we wouldn't have the Hornet or the Viper right now and I think I was first attracted to the product BECAUSE they had the Hornet, and frankly I don't care it's not perfect.

I know it's a sim-first product and not really for casual users, and eventually I will be as picky as half the people on this forum, but honestly they need to expand their user base quickly or die.

Am I misunderstanding you? You think they should simply never release an incomplete plane ever?
And for expanding the user base they are making a whole other standalone product MAC which is doubtless also stealing resource.

It is clear as day that they are stretched too thin in a hunt for new user and cash from existing users. I wonder if Mac has been delayed more than expected so they had to push out the Viper earlier than planned, with the consequential knock on to the hornet - but ED won’t say.
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Old 11-11-2019, 06:35 AM   #155
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Originally Posted by Arctander View Post
And for expanding the user base they are making a whole other standalone product MAC which is doubtless also stealing resource.

It is clear as day that they are stretched too thin in a hunt for new user and cash from existing users. I wonder if Mac has been delayed more than expected so they had to push out the Viper earlier than planned, with the consequential knock on to the hornet - but ED won’t say.
We already explained this, it has nothing to do with MAC, the Viper needed added support, the Hornet guys are slowing moving back, let's not try and make it more than it was, we tried to be very clear and open about this, no need to look for the conspiracy.
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Old 11-11-2019, 07:07 AM   #156
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KennyG View Post
Ok, but that means we wouldn't have the Hornet or the Viper right now and I think I was first attracted to the product BECAUSE they had the Hornet, and frankly I don't care it's not perfect.



I know it's a sim-first product and not really for casual users, and eventually I will be as picky as half the people on this forum, but honestly they need to expand their user base quickly or die.



Am I misunderstanding you? You think they should simply never release an incomplete plane ever?
No, EA is ok for me,but why a reduced price on Sale,before the Module is Finally ready?

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Old 11-11-2019, 07:09 AM   #157
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Originally Posted by TOYKILLA View Post
No, EA is ok for me,but why a reduced price on Sale,before the Module is Finally ready?

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You get a reduced price if you pre-purchase in order to take part in the EA.
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Old 11-11-2019, 07:14 AM   #158
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NineLine View Post
You get a reduced price if you pre-purchase in order to take part in the EA.
Yes before the EA Release and that's ok,but why was the FA/18 already on Sale last time,before its Final Release?



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Old 11-11-2019, 07:21 AM   #159
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TOYKILLA View Post
Yes before the EA Release and that's ok,but why was the FA/18 already on Sale last time,before its Final Release?



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All modules that have been out to the public after a certain amount of time can and will go on sale when a sale happens.
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Old 11-11-2019, 07:48 AM   #160
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@hughlb.

Did I buy in too soon? Yes and no. I bought in knowing more was to come. I bought in expecting it be continually supported to the best of ED’s ability and not speed down to produce another module to hit a self imposed deadline.

If Ed has said at the time ‘it will take > 2 years and we will move developers off it in a year and a half’s time and use that resource to bring systems to another plane in ea before you get them’ then I likely wouldn’t have bought in at the time (though in all likelihood I would have done so by now) That’s both in Ed for not making the timeframe clear at purchase, and on me for not knowing EDs development capabilities and history.

And yes - the slow down and wait for a TGP of a year (still incomplete) and TWS, AZ-EL, no Proper ins or ins stabilised RWR etc is immensely frustrating when we see these things coming to the Viper that releases a year and a half after. I hear about ‘parallel’ devlopment but that doesn’t mean the Viper should get things first when others have been waiting longer. So far all the benefits of this have gone to the Viper that we can see.

If I had a viper I might be a little more amenable to it as I could see these things coming to something I have - but as I don’t have the Viper (not going to buy until the hornet and it are complete this time!) it stings that for all the talk of ‘shared’ development benefits I am yet to see ANY of it, and it’s been three months almost.

but my main concern is that ED cannot develop at full force the ea products they have put out at the same time without compromising on one or the other and to me that speaks to a gap between what they need to do and what they can do, which makes me afraid given Nick Greys public statement on how important ea is for their continued survival as to what the future holds.

And lastly - with all of this going on, which I think everyone objectively can understand the community frustrations, I am yet to see any acknowledgement from Ed that doing it in this way has been a mistake in the eyes of many.

First rule of business - if you make a mistake and upset your community, apologise. Say why it has happened (which to be fair they have even though it raised more concerns to me than answers) and then state what you will do to stop it happening again. I am yet to see a meaningful former, and we’ve seen little of the latter.

There have been statements by the community managers that ‘we’re working on it
And ‘lots of hard work to come’ - but this is vague and can be construed as platitudes. I want to understand what concrete steps and actions they will take to prevent it happening again. They have said a roadmap with priorities will come - and I am very interested to see that.

Last edited by Arctander; 11-11-2019 at 07:58 AM.
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