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Old 09-12-2019, 03:44 PM   #1
Nealius
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Default Coordinating an Immelmann?

I've got my aileron rolls and Cuban Eight rollouts fairly well coordinated, but the Immelmann is giving me problems because of my slow speed at the top.

Let's say I want to roll right 180 degrees from inverted to upright after an Immelmann. During the first 90 degrees of the roll I will feed in right rudder to keep the nose up. Continuing through 90 to 140 degrees of the roll, things are fine, until around 140-145 degrees through the roll the nose crabs off to the left. I give a boot-full of right rudder and it stays to the left until I'm wings level.

This will also occasionally happen to me when rolling out of a Cuban Eight if I don't get enough smash before starting my roll. It's driving me nuts and I can't figure out how to deal with it if rudder doesn't seem to be doing anything to correct the crab. Should I just accelerate while inverted until I'm fast enough to roll upright without the nose going nuts?
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Last edited by Nealius; 09-12-2019 at 03:51 PM. Reason: Got my lefts and rights mixed up
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Old 09-13-2019, 07:16 AM   #2
philstyle
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I've just had a look at this, and I see what you mean.


It's nearly impossible to prevent nose-pendulumn at the end of the maneuver, if you use rudder durng the initial section of the roll to keep the nose up.

I actually found it far easier to ignore the slip indicator (which is pretty wild when inverted) and to simply use a tiny bit of elevator to correct the nose when rolling back from inverted to normal attitude.

It actually rolls quite nicely aournd the horizon without rudder, and it also means you don't get the wild swing in the final 20 to 50 degrees of roll as you come off the rudder.
I'd also largely ignore the slip indicator.. you might be a bit out of balance, but the overall managability is far better than when using the rudder.

Let me know if this is unclear, I can always make a quick video to explain.
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Old 09-13-2019, 10:11 AM   #3
Nealius
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I might play around with it more. I was able to get things a lot better by extending inverted to gain some speed, then when I rolled upright I just maintained rudder throughout the whole process, then did a little dance to dampen the pendulum effect once leveled out. From the ground you can see my tail wobble ever so slightly, but I feel like at this point I'm just chasing perfection.
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Old 09-14-2019, 07:33 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nealius View Post
I might play around with it more. I was able to get things a lot better by extending inverted to gain some speed, then when I rolled upright I just maintained rudder throughout the whole process, then did a little dance to dampen the pendulum effect once leveled out. From the ground you can see my tail wobble ever so slightly, but I feel like at this point I'm just chasing perfection.
Try staying inverted until the nose drops below the horizon.
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Old 09-15-2019, 01:43 PM   #5
Nealius
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I also had a tip from someone else, mainly for the Cuban Eight, though. On the 45 you have some neg G loading, which produces some proverse yaw apparently. Once I tried adding a bit of opposite rudder at the start of the roll things got a bit smoother.
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