too early blackout when inverted? - ED Forums
 


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Old 07-28-2019, 05:27 PM   #1
akosmaroy
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Default too early blackout when inverted?

Hi,

I'm just trying my hands on the DCS Spitfire model. After doing a few manouvers, I encountered a phenomenon: when inverted with the Spitfire, the blackout 'feature' seems to come at extremely small pitch movements, esp. when pushing the yoke - even on a small push, the screen is blacked out, and it won't return.

I wonder if this is a modelling issue?


Akos
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Old 07-28-2019, 07:53 PM   #2
imacken
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Funilly enough, I was thinking the same thing. It feels like black out happens a lot more easily now than in the past. I'm sure something has changed on that since 2.5.5 was released.
Not sure which is more realistic though.
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Old 07-28-2019, 07:57 PM   #3
akosmaroy
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the strange thing is that in other cases (e.g. not inverted, or pull when inverted), it seems to be OK
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Old 07-28-2019, 08:14 PM   #4
Shahdoh
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Quote:
Originally Posted by akosmaroy View Post
the strange thing is that in other cases (e.g. not inverted, or pull when inverted), it seems to be OK
The body can withstand quite a bit more positive G's than negative which both of your examples are implying. That being said, yes, negative G's do seem to be pretty touchy. But if you watch the G meter, you will probably see that you are generating more negative G's then you perceive, thus resulting in the quick black out. This comes about because we can not actually feel what is going on, so we push/pull with abandon. In the real aircraft, you would feel that rush of blood to your head and back off.

We do not get much of a warning and having to watch the G meter is not the best solution. Maybe if they started the visual redout a bit sooner and dragged it out just a TOUCH longer, we would have something we could react off of.
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Old 07-28-2019, 08:35 PM   #5
akosmaroy
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Originally Posted by Shahdoh View Post
The body can withstand quite a bit more positive G's than negative which both of your examples are implying. That being said, yes, negative G's do seem to be pretty touchy. But if you watch the G meter, you will probably see that you are generating more negative G's then you perceive, thus resulting in the quick black out. This comes about because we can not actually feel what is going on, so we push/pull with abandon. In the real aircraft, you would feel that rush of blood to your head and back off.

We do not get much of a warning and having to watch the G meter is not the best solution. Maybe if they started the visual redout a bit sooner and dragged it out just a TOUCH longer, we would have something we could react off of.
while it is true that one can take more positive G's than negative - your comment misses the essence of my post.

negative G's, while in straight & level flight (not inverted), seem to be handled fine. BUT, when inverted, and giving the yoke a slight push, there is an immediate blackout (note: not redout!) in the simulation. this seems to be a model error.
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Old 07-28-2019, 09:34 PM   #6
Shahdoh
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Right, but also realise, in neutral, inverted flight, you are starting off a -1 g instead of +1 G. Already behind the curve at the start of things. Does not take as much to get you to the blackout from that position.
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Old 07-29-2019, 01:12 AM   #7
Catseye
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Quote:
Originally Posted by akosmaroy View Post
Hi,

I'm just trying my hands on the DCS Spitfire model. After doing a few manouvers, I encountered a phenomenon: when inverted with the Spitfire, the blackout 'feature' seems to come at extremely small pitch movements, esp. when pushing the yoke - even on a small push, the screen is blacked out, and it won't return.

I wonder if this is a modelling issue?


Akos



Just to clarify - you're inverted and pushing on the stick?
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Old 07-29-2019, 01:14 AM   #8
akosmaroy
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Originally Posted by Catseye View Post
Just to clarify - you're inverted and pushing on the stick?
correct
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Old 07-29-2019, 02:33 AM   #9
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I did some tests in the Spitfire and was able to perform an outside loop (not the prettiest, but got it around). As long as I kept the negative G's around -3 or less, things were fine. If I pushed into the -3.5 or higher, the redout would start to kick in, though still quite controllable. Needed positive G to clear the red, though, then seemed a bit immune to the negative for a bit.

Now if I suddenly jabbed the stick forward while inverted especially, black out would occur quite suddenly. and stay that way since it locks you into that negative push. Not as much as the onset, but as I mentioned before, positive G's were needed to clear the condition.

Maybe check to see if your controller is spiking, causing more input than intended. This might account for your slight push generating a bigger input than you expected, causing the sudden blackout. Either that or you are pushing the stick forward to fast still.
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Old 07-29-2019, 07:20 AM   #10
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it look like you were pushing stick to rapidly
any way those maneuvers bring no benefit in dogfight and can damage your engine too not mention that whole equipment on board may not be prepared for pushing that kind of negative G
like weapons etc
make sure that you have nice curvers for pitch on your controler spitfire is very sensitive in that departament
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