Open beta flight dynamics...

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why not buy yourself a ForceFeedback joystick? It´s christmas, isn't it?

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- Cruise still reveals the need for fine tuning of the aileron trim tab, IMO: if it was available for editing in the Dora, why is it no longer in the K4?

In the open beta there is now a FMOptions.LUA for the 109.

I haven't played around with the numbers yet, but you can change the trim tab numbers. :joystick:

Yes, true, but what model? Heard the MS FF was the best, but it is no longer available :-(

 

What would you suggest? And, btw, can you cionfirm DSC really feels different ( better ) wjhen used with a FF joystick?

 

Thx!

during the time you have posted this, i have used my MSFFB2 to fly about 15 patterns in the dora..... :)

I am using this stick since more than 10years. I have never used a non ffb stick on IL-2 or DCS. It just feels nice. Trim-force is also nicely modeled.

It is available... --> ebay

I haven´t heard from any wear or problems on this stick, so you could by a used one. I have modded my stick with more bottons for the A-10, but that´s another story..

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Hi jcom

so acordingly to yours tests, are the landing now easier than before about the the k4:music_whistling: " jump" and touch the ground with the wings when the plane touch the runway ?

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My first impressions with the new flight model are very positive indeed. Excellent work Wags.

Why is the Bf-109 still in Beta I ask myself?

^^the longer it is in beta the better for us tbh, as we can expect improvements on a more regular pace.

ask yourself: what would be better when the devs told us today that it is out of beta?

Yes, true, but what model? Heard the MS FF was the best, but it is no longer available :-(

 

What would you suggest? And, btw, can you cionfirm DSC really feels different ( better ) wjhen used with a FF joystick?

 

Thx!

you could still find the MS FF on e-bay...I bought a brand new one(Red box version) in a battered box a couple of years ago on e-bay. After a while, I wound up listing it on e-bay, and selling it.

My first impressions with the new flight model are very positive indeed. Excellent work Wags.

 

Why is the Bf-109 still in Beta I ask myself?

I'm glad it's still beta as FM, as great as it is already, feels unfinished in some areas.

you could still find the MS FF on e-bay...I bought a brand new one(Red box version) in a battered box a couple of years ago on e-bay. After a while, I wound up listing it on e-bay, and selling it.

+1, i've bought mine off from ebay too. I would never ever play DCS or any other flightsims without FFB anymore.

My first impressions with the new flight model are very positive indeed. Excellent work Wags.

 

Why is the Bf-109 still in Beta I ask myself?

The Bf109 does not feel like the Bf109 I read about. Either the pilot is too strong or the plane is not modeled correctly.

The elevator and alerions are too powerful at speeds of 550kph+ The plane was reported to be stiff and both hands were used to perform any agressive maneuvers. That is not reflected in the sim. The pilot seems to be not affected by those constrains that would affect him IRL. In DCS you can pull lightly at that speed and rip your wings off, which is almost impossible IRL.

I also read that Bf109 pilots were unable to pull more than 5G sustained due to that stiffening. That is why in British tests it was called a "pleasant" as spitfire pilots were blacking out and some times loosing wings due to elevator authority at high speeds.

Mark Hanna also said that the plane after reaching 500kph should get a nose heavy attitude.

"Pitch tends to be heavy above 400km/h, but it

is still easy to manage up to 500km/h, and

the aircraft is perfectly happy carrying out

low-level looping manoeuvres from 550km/h

and below."

"Above 550km/h, one peculiarity is a slight nose-down trim change as you

accelerate. This means that when you run in

for an airshow above

500km/h, the airplane

has a slight tucking sensation-a sort of desire to get down to

ground level. This is easily

held on the stick, or it can

be trimmed out, but it is s

lightly surprising initially."

http://www.eaf51.org/newweb/Documenti/Storia/Flying_%20109_ENG.pdf

I have not felt that nose down attitude at higher speeds. Moreover, if the plane is not trimmed down it will have very light nose attitude and wants to go up. (it is better now after the patch though) I will check it later to give full description. Maybe I didn't pay enough attention to it.

So please stop with this suggar eveywhere. We are here to have a good simulator. ED knows if something is wrong, and I am sure they will fix it, but they need our help to see the errors in the first place.

I was expecting a different beast. More stable in turns at low speeds and less prone to stalling, at the same time hard to maneuver at high speed where it became so stiff that pilot needed a lot of strenght to move it around with both hands on stick. It had a very short stick and there was realy little space inside people.

Can't we be realists for once? I like DCS. Realy I was impressed with P-51s model so much I couldn't wait for more. For me 109K4 needs work.

If you do not see ANY LIMITS would it be considered beta state?

The feeling of the pilot not always corresponds the results of measurements. Trim curves for the 109G is available and there is no sign of such trim behavior in this curves. Fortunately, 109G/K is a plane we have exact test flight measurements.

Also worth noting that Mark Hanna (Whom I knew in person RIP) was referring to a Merlin engine Buchon and NOT a 109 with a DB605 in that article Solty is quoting.

Pman

Also worth noting that Mark Hanna (Whom I knew in person RIP) was referring to a Merlin engine Buchon and NOT a 109 with a DB605 in that article Solty is quoting.

 

Pman

Are you sure about that? I know he mentions "D-FEHD", wich was register of buchon before it was restored to G10 and changed to "D-FDME" but he also mentions "galland canopy" (better known as erla nowadays), automatic mixture etc. Also article is fro 1999 and DB conversion was made 1996 IIRC.

I've always been under impression he talks about DB engined one.

Edit, i think this part confirms my toughts:

"To summarize, I like the airplane very much

, and I can understand why many Luftwaffe

aces had such a high regard and preference

for it. Hans Dittes has completed a fantastic

restoration and should be complimented

on returning "Black

2" to the air."

Ary you sure about that? I know he mentions "D-FEHD", wich was register of buchon before it was restored to G10 and changed to "D-FDME" but he also mentions "galland canopy" (better known as erla nowadays), automatic mixture etc. Also article is fro 1999 and DB conversion was made 1996 IIRC.

I've always been under impression he talks about DB engined one.

He was referring to the OMFC Buchon that he and Ray Hanna flew and owned.

This was a Merlin powered buchon.

I knew both Mark and Ray quite well when they were still with us :(

Pman

He was referring to the OMFC Buchon that he and Ray Hanna flew and owned.

 

This was a Merlin powered buchon.

 

I knew both Mark and Ray quite well when they were still with us :(

 

Pman

But he used to fly quite lot's with "Black 2" too, right? How do you know for sure wich one he is talking about?

Anyway, may both of them rest in peace, great pilots...

Picture of their old one

Because if you read the entire article the startup sequence is that of a merlin and not the

DB605 ;)

Plus this line at the beginning of the article gives it away ...

Mark Hanna of the Old Flying Machine Company relates his experiences flying the OFMC Messerschmitt Bf 109J (export version to Spain).

I'd suggest you do your research before ever assuming anything ;)

Pman

Link to the full article that we quoted for development of the Buchon : http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=135476

Pman

Link to the full article that we quoted for development of the Buchon : http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=135476

 

Pman

Oh i see, my bad then. I had not seen that full version before.

I dont think that it should be too much difference between Buchon and 109 flight characteristic. Both had similar take off weight( Buchon between 3200-3300 kg), Buchon could have more engine power without WEP, rest of fusalege and wings was the same ? If so Buchon could be more difficult to handle cause opposite direction of prop rotating when asymetric tail was unchanged ( was prepared for DB60X )

BTW i wonder if not all prop planes in DCS dont have problem with stiffened controls at higher speeds?

If you do not see ANY LIMITS would it be considered beta state?

The feeling of the pilot not always corresponds the results of measurements. Trim curves for the 109G is available and there is no sign of such trim behavior in this curves. Fortunately, 109G/K is a plane we have exact test flight measurements.

OK, I don't have flight measurments of the 109G/K, but I have years of reading and FMs in other flight sims that maybe weren't detailed enough but were very close to those descriptions that have researched over years. Bf109 was my favourite plane of old days, when I still was a kid.

To answer the question though. Yes I do believe it fits very well into BETA status, thus it is not complete. But somebody that I have quoted above said that it should not be BETA because "reasons". Nobody doubts you ability in coding. You are probably the only person working on the FM right? I have a friend who made FMs for WT, and I heard how hard it is to code that stuff, probably even harder in DCS. I just want what I was waiting for and what we pay for. A Bf109K4 not something that doesn't feel like Bf109K4. You understand right? I'd rather say that now when still in BETA, then wait for full release and still be disapointed. As we all know, then you won't make any alterations as you will be completely busy working on other projects (Spit MkIX maybe?)

I liked the last patch 109 improved greately, especially the sound of buffeting is awesome. It realy adds to immersion. Just please be more clear with your responses.

It feels that I am unwelcome here:(

Also worth noting that Mark Hanna (Whom I knew in person RIP) was referring to a Merlin engine Buchon and NOT a 109 with a DB605 in that article Solty is quoting.

 

Pman

As far as I know in this text he is refering to Bf-109G10

"...That many Luftwaffe aces had such a high regard and preference

for it. Hans Dittes has completed a fantastic

restoration and should be complimented

on returning "Black 2" to the air."

Black 2 is the 109G10.

YoYo says:

The feeling of the pilot not always corresponds the results of measurements. Trim curves for the 109G is available and there is no sign of such trim behavior in this curves. Fortunately, 109G/K is a plane we have exact test flight measurements.

:thumbup:

That is the only way to do a good simulation. I am sure you probably have these reports but just in case I have provided an investigation into the influences of rudder position on longitudinal stability for the Bf-109 and FW-190.