[REPORTED] Too low ITR

omg...

In post #6 you claimed the following:

According the rw chart you need to dive with more than 36`000ft per minute (600fps) to get the `corner` rates between M0.54 and M 069.

So you need to dive for testing...

Which is just flat out wrong.

Probably you should. I am not saying that it isn’t a bug for sure, just saying that by diving one can get 9 g at M0.69 and that you can achieve the rates according the chart.

 

If you do the very same test with the hornet, you neither achieve max g (7.5) during the hole maneuver… one can not climb the hill up do corner speed on the g-limit line neither.

You're *almost* right. You can achieve the maximum turn rate as long as you are at the specific speed along the X axis of the chart and pull the stick back as far as possible, but in a level turn or climb, you will rapidly lose airspeed riding that 9G line until you get to mach .67 and the FLCS transitions from 9G to approximately 7.8G from mach .67 to mach .58 until you hit the lift limit curve (i.e. stall). If you are climbing or level, your airspeed bleed will be very fast. If you are diving during the turn, the airspeed bleed will be slower because you are trading potential for kinetic energy.

If you want to *maintain* 9G for as long as possible, then you need to trade a lot of potential energy in that turn. If you are at mach .67, according to the chart provided, you need to descend at about 700 feet per second (42,000 feet per minute) during the turn to maintain a constant airspeed and therefore a constant 9G turn until you run out of room, i.e. when you have to stop descending to avoid hitting the ground.

Any change with the latest patch?

Can't check myself as I'm in holiday.

It does not feel different. Seems like in that update ED did just minor fixes for the F16

https://www.digitalcombatsimulator.com/en/news/changelog/openbeta/2.5.6.49314/

Any change with the latest patch?

 

Can't check myself as I'm in holiday.

no i don't think they changed anything FM related in last patch.

Yeah, still nothing.

Looking forward to the day they address this, a lot. Gonna be great. Really wish they would give some word though.

Yeah, still nothing.

 

Looking forward to the day they address this, a lot. Gonna be great. Really wish they would give some word though.

Same here. Right now the Viper cannot even out-rate the Hornet, which is just sad:cry:

Also, it would be nice if ED can change the G-tolerance and allow us to sustain 9G turns without blacking out

Yeah, once again I have to stress that this seems very much related to an overly restrictive FLCS logic which significantly lowers the G-onset rate as speed increases in order to avoid the aircraft from overshooting 9 G's.

In real life the FLCS is nowhere near that invasive according to Viper pilots, with C.W. Lemoine amongst others mentioning how easy it is to accidently hit 10+ G's in the F-16 after going from a heavily laden two bag Viper to a clean one.

In short the G-onset rate drops off noticable with speed in DCS, so much so that you're getting only about 4 G/s at 600 kts. Where'as in real life you should be able to get 8-10 G/s onset rates. A certain other F-16 sim lauded by real Viper jocks simulates this well, and I hope the ED devs will try it out in order to see how it differs from their FM.

Yeah, once again I have to stress that this seems very much related to an overly restrictive FLCS logic which significantly lowers the G-onset rate as speed increases in order to avoid the aircraft from overshooting 9 G's.

 

In real life the FLCS is nowhere near that invasive according to Viper pilots, with C.W. Lemoine amongst others mentioning how easy it is to accidently hit 10+ G's in the F-16 after going from a heavily laden two bag Viper to a clean one.

 

In short the G-onset rate drops off noticable with speed in DCS, so much so that you're getting only about 4 G/s at 600 kts. Where'as in real life you should be able to get 8-10 G/s onset rates. A certain other F-16 sim lauded by real Viper jocks simulates this well, and I hope the ED devs will try it out in order to see how it differs from their FM.

+1

From the latest round of testing:

So it's from ~0.54 to ~0.77 mach that ITR is too low (as well as below 0.3 mach for some reason), and then ofcourse the max G should be 9.3 instead of 9.0.

In terms of STR it's below 0.46 mach where performance is lacking, where'as above this it follows the available charts quite closely.

Worthy of note: The lift curve and Ps=0 curve intersect at 2.5 G's @ 0.31 mach in DCS, where'as on the real thing it's at 2.8 G @ 0.31 mach.

Thx for the updated testing Hummingbird. Hope ED will address this issue soon. For me, it's still very hard to hit 9Gs in the viper now. Most of the time I can only get to 8.8 Gs with ITR.

You're welcome. It's gonna be interesting to see wether there are any changes to the FM with the next update so the DCS Viper can finally match the real version. Hopefully there will be.