[NO BUG] Far too easy to over G the plane with no feedback.

First off wanted to say I'm really loving the F-14, it's an amazing achievement. One issue I've had is that I've been flying around with the F-14 and I've noticed it's incredibly easy to over-G the plane. When the plane is going very fast, even if you pull back on the stick gently increasing force slowly there's no feedback to tell you that you're pulling too many G. Your screen doesn't black out, your pilot doesn't make straining noises, there's just no feedback at all. Instead one moment you seem to be fine slowly easing into a steeper turn, you don't even have the stick pulled back very far, and the next you suddenly find that your wings have snapped off.

This make it very hard to fly the plane in a combat situation at high speed (where the Tomcat shines) and is clearly totally unrealistic as in real life a pilot would have a strong sensation of how many Gs he was pulling.

EDIT: Currently it applies the G feedback effects (blackout and breathing noises) quite a long time after you've already pulled the G (several seconds). It would be much better if the feedback came as soon as you started pulling the strong G, it would be much more realistic and lead to less snapped wings. It's also worth noting that I fly VR and this could be a problem specific to the modelling of black-out in VR.

I am no expert on the F-14 and like you say the wings may snap off a bit too fast, but here is my opinion on this: To get the same deflection on a real F-14 stick as you get on a PC joystick probably takes much more effort, especially at higher speeds. A real F-14 pilot may find it easier to judge how much stick defection is too much (combined with Gs of course). Force feedback joysticks may help in this regard, I miss my old MS FF2 :(.

IRL the force needed to pull those G's on the stick would be quite large and the pilot would also feel the G's ofc. You really need to check the AoA and the other instruments in the F-14 unlike in a newer aircraft were the computers stops the pilot from overloading the aircraft.

I was also having that problem, and it was hard for me to keep the aircraft in the sweet spot of ~15 units AoA. I sorted both of those issues by adding a little curvature to the axis settings.

After flying sims for so many years, I've learned that the best way to 'adopt' such issue is via muscle memory. Play A LOT , test fly a bit and eventually you will know how much is too much.

Careful tuning of the pitch curve helps a lot, experiment until you can sustain max turn rate at the stick deflection you naturally apply Then allow a bit extra . (The required curve will be different for everyone.. depends how you handle the stick)

These are all great suggestions. However, why not add a bit more feedback? Introduce some blackening around the edges of the screen, have the pilot make noises for pulling Gs. As everyone agrees, in real life this isn't a problem: you can feel the Gs on your body, so you wouldn't over G the plane. No one seems to be debating that accidentally snapping the wings off is completely unrealistic, so why not add the correct feedback into the game?

No one seems to be debating that accidentally snapping the wings off is completely unrealistic,

There's nothing unrealistic about the wings snapping off after over-G sir, intentionally or by accident.

You have to get used to looking at your G meter when you're loading up the aircraft if you want to avoid this.

We have been spoilt in DCS with so many aircraft with advanced HUDs, however if you want to stay in the air in the Cat you need to start training yourself to bring your eyes back in to the cockpit to read your gauges, especially the G meter.

Best practice is to point the aircraft where you want to go then slowly start pulling back on the stick, then look at the G meter then start pulling back on the stick and load the aircraft up.

;3855012']Best practice is to point the aircraft where you want to go then slowly start pulling back on the stick' date=' then look at the G meter then start pulling back on the stick and load the aircraft up.[/quote']

 

But you agree they don't do that in the real plane, right? You wouldn't need to do that, because you're going to know perfectly well when you're pulling 11Gs. I struggle to believe real life Tomcat pilots had to constantly scan the G meter in the middle of a dogfight (where the most important concern is usually not losing visual) for fear of breaking the wings ...

In the real jet not only your body feels the Gs but as well the stick itself is harder to pull the more Gs you have. There is a counterweight on the base-plate at the front bottom of the stick - that counterweight pulls the stick to the front (center position) - the more Gs, the harder that weight pulls the stick to the center and you have to fight against that increased force.

I agree - it is really hard to avoid over-G without that force-feedback but still dogfight the jet to its limits.

Very good explanation of the force on the stick during Gs:

Andre's Jetseat gives you that 'seat of your pants' tactile feedback.

Im dint fly the Tomcat, but in the Hornet you hace black out pilot view and Flight computer to control de over Gs. There is a chance that you did not activated the G realistic effects or the tomcat module doesnt have it.... a virtual feedback its important, doesnt matter how many devices the real plane have or the real pilots feels, we dont have it. regards

X52, deadzone 5, curves 15, gentle pull on the stick at ~450kts wings 68, AoA suddenly and violently increases and my wing snaps off.

"Keep your eye on the G-meter." You mean that gauge by my right knee? Okay. <Crashes because I can't see out the canopy> <Gets shot down because I'm not keeping eyes on the bandit>.

The buffeting is great and it helps out in most situations, but in the situations where I've had a wing come off, it's been 0 to FUBAR in a quarter of a second, with no time to rectify. The only way I've been able to avoid damage is by only maneuvering at sub-400kts with wings in AUTO.

The buffeting is great and it helps out in most situations, but in the situations where I've had a wing come off, it's been 0 to FUBAR in a quarter of a second, with no time to rectify. The only way I've been able to avoid damage is by only maneuvering at sub-400kts with wings in AUTO.

Right, even if you are aware it's easy to over G the plane and you are gentle on stick and only increase pressure gradually it still goes from totally fine to "look ma' no wings" in a split second. I have likewise found the only way not to suffer from this problem is just to avoid maneuvering significantly at high speed.

"Keep your eye on the G-meter." You mean that gauge by my right knee? Okay.

Yes, believe it or not that is exactly what is expected of you, and it sounds like you need more practice at it ;)

I have likewise found the only way not to suffer from this problem is just to avoid maneuvering significantly at high speed.

Just be hyper aware of what your energy state is, there is no easy work around for this... its not a modern aircraft with FBW, you have to work harder to perform in it. So if you know your fast and you need to go somewhere you need to be super vigilant of the G meter as your manoeuvring. I hated doing it at first but after a while it becomes easier.

Pull, look, pull, look, pull and look ;)

;3855430']Yes, believe it or not that is exactly what is expected of you, and it sounds like you need more practice at it ;)

To look at the G-meter, and read it, I have to go completely heads-down and zoom in, losing ALL situational awareness. I doubt that's required in the real cockpit. You could just glance down with your eyeball then glance back up where your nose is pointing, no?

Andre's Jetseat gives you that 'seat of your pants' tactile feedback.

This, you guys need to give jetseat and/or the buttkicker a look. The feedback they provide really helps.

You could just glance down with your eyeball then glance back up where your nose is pointing, no?

This is exactly what I do I have to move my head down a little bit to see the gauge from my heads up out the window position but I can see it perfectly fine ... why you have to move your head down and zoom in is a bit of a mystery to me.

1080p I guess....With a decently wide FOV most of the gauges aren't very readable. That and looking down to certain potions in TrackIR causes certain portions of the screen to be out of my glasses frames, which then is 20/200 vision on top of 1080p 2D screens :megalol:

Try to memorise the needle position at 8 G as if you were looking at a clock.

You don't necessarily need to see exactly what number its pointing to if you memorise which position indicates what G loading.

Eg.. when you see the needle at the 4 o'clock position ... stop pulling :D

;3855475']Try to memorise the needle position at 8 G as if you were looking at a clock.

You don't necessarily need to see exactly what number its pointing to if you memorise which position indicates what G loading.

 

 

Eg.. when you see the needle at the 4 o'clock position ... stop pulling :D

But why ?

I din't know I had to do that...

I thought I had to pull the stick insanely to get that MiG...

(In 1996 or so when playing TOPGUN: Fire at Will for the first times, I really thought I had to.)

At the bottom screen info bar (external view) I've seen peaks of 21 Gs !!! :megalol:

Obviously to see the damage model.

Introduce some blackening around the edges of the screen, have the pilot make noises for pulling Gs.

These things already happen in DCS. The pilot starts making noises at about 4 g, and the screen starts to go black in between 6 and 7 g. I've blacked out in the tomcat more times than I've ripped off the wings. Does your pilot not black out in other planes?

Not once pulled the wings off myself. Smooth inputs and ride the buffet.

Remember blacking out takes sustained G. If you try to use the screen darkening around the edges as your over G indication you are going to be pulling well past the G limit before getting your queue to ease off.

I've always turned the DCS GLOC effect off because a) it triggers on cat launches, and b) I've had the soda straw start as low as 4-5G.

;3855430']Yes' date=' believe it or not that is exactly what is expected of you, and it sounds like you need more practice at it ;)[/quote']

 

So as discussed this seems to be something you only have to do in a sim. Personally I’d rather not be forced to do things that are unnecessary in real life, especially when a bit more feedback would avoid it. But I guess people have different preferences.