AGM-154C (IIR) terminal seeker?

Greetings!

As far as I know, AGM-154C has Imaging Infrared (IIR) terminal seeker with autonomous guidance. However, Wags didn't mention anything about it and it seems that there aren't any IIR corrections on his brand new AGM-154C video.

We will have AGM-154C without IIR or it's just WIP™ ??

If I remember correctly that functionality came in a later variant.

If I remember correctly that functionality came in a later variant.

AGM-154C was upgraded to AGM-154C-1 in the late decade of 2000 whereas AGM154C was already in use by 2005.

AGM-154C had an IIR tracker already.

AGM-154C variant incorporates a 500-pound blast/fragmentation/penetrator warhead effective against fixed-point targets such as industrial facilities, logistical systems, and hardened tactical targets. The AGM-154C incorporates an uncooled, long-wave imaging infrared seeker with autonomous target acquisition algorithms for precise targeting.

The AGM-154C was approved for full-rate production in December 2004. The initial operational capability was achieved in February 2005. Integration of a weapon data link and updated seeker software algorithms (termed AGM-154C-1 variant) began in the fiscal year 2006 to provide a capability against at-sea moving/relocatable targets in fiscal 2010.

Info is taken from "https://www.military.com/equipment/agm-154-joint-standoff-weapon"

AGM-154C was upgraded to AGM-154C-1 in the late decade of 2000 whereas AGM154C was already in use by 2005.

 

 

 

The AGM-154C was approved for full-rate production in December 2004. The initial operational capability was achieved in February 2005. Integration of a weapon data link and updated seeker software algorithms (termed AGM-154C-1 variant) began in the fiscal year 2006 to provide a capability against at-sea moving/relocatable targets in fiscal 2010.

 

Info is taken from "https://www.military.com/equipment/agm-154-joint-standoff-weapon"

So you just validated what I typed, cool beans.

Forgot to copy the whole info, check again. :)

Okay, so it's a terminal seeker sensor. Kewl. That's nothing that the pilot has access to.

Okay, so it's a terminal seeker sensor. Kewl. That's nothing that the pilot has access to.

Yea but Wags mentioned BROACH warhead and almost everything about AGM154C but never ever told anything about IIR.

I guess With IIR we should be able to hit moving targets that will get in to AGM154C sight of view.

I know that pilot doesn’t has an access to it. Basically my question is, will we have it or not, is it already implemented or not?

To enable terminal guidance with IIR seeker, the missile's on board memory has to be preloaded with images of the target. The IIR seeker will then look for the same image and home in. I don't know if it can follow a moving, non-preloaded target in an ideal background, such as a ship at sea.

To use the above in DCS, we'd need to be able to define the target before takeoff, probably in the Mission Editor. I guess this can come alongside the DTC, where you'll be able to select a target out of a list of valid units currently present in the mission. Until that happens though, whether the IIR seeker is modeled or not remains irrelevant. If the JSOW-C version we get used it though, it'd be pretty sweet to have the functionality, eventually.

To enable terminal guidance with IIR seeker, the missile's on board memory has to be preloaded with images of the target. The IIR seeker will then look for the same image and home in. I don't know if it can follow a moving, non-preloaded target in an ideal background, such as a ship at sea.

To use the above in DCS, we'd need to be able to define the target before takeoff, probably in the Mission Editor. I guess this can come alongside the DTC, where you'll be able to select a target out of a list of valid units currently present in the mission. Until that happens though, whether the IIR seeker is modeled or not remains irrelevant. If the JSOW-C version we get used it though, it'd be pretty sweet to have the functionality, eventually.

Ahh, if this is truely how the 154C operates then it is identical to the SPICE family in that respect. I was hoping for a bit more guidance logic... EG: coordiante XYZ is targetted, when JSOW arrives on terminal approach, it looks for an object that qualifies as a target closest to XYZ coords.

Ahh, if this is truely how the 154C operates then it is identical to the SPICE family in that respect. I was hoping for a bit more guidance logic... EG: coordiante XYZ is targetted, when JSOW arrives on terminal approach, it looks for an object that qualifies as a target closest to XYZ coords.

It does look for an object that qualifies as a target, but that's exactly it, the missile needs to know how the target looks like; otherwise, who say's it won't choose the wrong target? Preloading things is the only way that fire-and-forget stand-off missiles can have refined terminal guidance. Tomahawk variants that are fire-and-forget have preloaded terrain data for navigation, some use IIR with preloaded images, some use an active radar to match a preloaded radar return signal.

Sure, it could have a database of likely targets, but since the operator can't affect which one of the targets the missile will eventually select, it can't really work that way.

I'm really looking forward to the SLAM-ER for that last part, it's going to be really cool guiding it to the target ourselves via data-link.

Yea but Wags mentioned BROACH warhead and almost everything about AGM154C but never ever told anything about IIR.

 

I guess With IIR we should be able to hit moving targets that will get in to AGM154C sight of view.

 

I know that pilot doesn’t has an access to it. Basically my question is, will we have it or not, is it already implemented or not?

Only later versions of the JSOW can hit moving targets. Those came into service sometime around or after 2010, years after the Hornet that is modeled in DCS.

I can only assume that he made mention of the warhead as he was specifically talking about the hardened penetrator version of the JSOW.

Is that "FLIR" on central pylon means TGP? ATFLIR or LITENING?

Is that "FLIR" on central pylon means TGP? ATFLIR or LITENING?

Yes and I guess it's the same label for either, in this instance it'll be the Litening.

It does look for an object that qualifies as a target, but that's exactly it, the missile needs to know how the target looks like; otherwise, who say's it won't choose the wrong target? Preloading things is the only way that fire-and-forget stand-off missiles can have refined terminal guidance. Tomahawk variants that are fire-and-forget have preloaded terrain data for navigation, some use IIR with preloaded images, some use an active radar to match a preloaded radar return signal.

 

Sure, it could have a database of likely targets, but since the operator can't affect which one of the targets the missile will eventually select, it can't really work that way.

 

I'm really looking forward to the SLAM-ER for that last part, it's going to be really cool guiding it to the target ourselves via data-link.

yes, man-in-the-loop weapons are certainly fun to play with. However, i believe the SLAM/SLAM-ER are going to be banned on most multiplayer servers when people see the absurd range they have.

This from a NAVAIR Report in 2001 and is specifically about the baseline c variant:

Incorporation of ATA allows for target discrimination and precise aim-point selection by the F/A-18 pilot during the mission planning phase. The mission planner selects desired impact angle, attack axis, and target aim-point from intelligence target images.

The JSOW mission planning software then develops a file consisting of a scene-based template that is loaded into the aircraft and is subsequently downloaded into the weapon. Once launched from the aircraft, the JSOW weapon is guided via a GPS aided inertial navigation system until the ATA feature is automatically employed during the terminal phase of the flight profile.

The ATA software correlates the scene-based template contained in the mission file to the image as seen by the imaging infrared seeker and guides the missile to the pre-planned aim-point. Options are being studied to enhance mission utility with target of opportunity capability.

This round of testing follows successful flight tests conducted late last summer that verified the ATA software and performance. The second phase of captive flight testing will be completed at the Naval Air Warfare Center, China Lake, Calif. test ranges.

Incorporation of ATA allows for target discrimination and precise aim-point selection by the F/A-18 pilot during the mission planning phase. The mission planner selects desired impact angle, attack axis, and target aim-point from intelligence target images.

 

The JSOW mission planning software then develops a file consisting of a scene-based template that is loaded into the aircraft and is subsequently downloaded into the weapon. Once launched from the aircraft, the JSOW weapon is guided via a GPS aided inertial navigation system until the ATA feature is automatically employed during the terminal phase of the flight profile.

 

The ATA software correlates the scene-based template contained in the mission file to the image as seen by the imaging infrared seeker and guides the missile to the pre-planned aim-point. Options are being studied to enhance mission utility with target of opportunity capability.

This round of testing follows successful flight tests conducted late last summer that verified the ATA software and performance. The second phase of captive flight testing will be completed at the Naval Air Warfare Center, China Lake, Calif. test ranges.

Perfectly explains it, with more clarity than I did :thumbup:

yes, man-in-the-loop weapons are certainly fun to play with. However, i believe the SLAM/SLAM-ER are going to be banned on most multiplayer servers when people see the absurd range they have.

I'm afraid you might be right, but man, I hate this. Let's just stick with Sidewinders, Sparrows and bombs forever. I don't get this, why do people even cry for features they'll never use online? New weapons and gameplay elements have the potential to change MP and evolve it, yet servers are so unwilling to deviate from the aforementioned formula.

The SLAM/ER might have a ridiculous range, but it can be intercepted. With the development of data-link, the AWACS becomes more important than ever, as in real life, thus its protection or destruction is crucial. Later, the Harpoon will be banned, instead of people going for fleet defense. The AIM-9X is banned because it's slightly better than the R-73, but didn't the latter enjoy an advantage for years? These are all lost opportunities for changes in the MP scene.

This got out of hand so much. . This is clearly a trigger for me. I'm going to slowly back off and calm. Do carry on.

...These are all lost opportunities for changes in the MP scene.

...

I think there is room for more than one "MP scene." Let's be hopeful there are enough people who want to play with all the toys (how could that not be?) that we can have servers where it is ok.

I for one have zero interest in the "Dogfight only" MP style of play, so there is at least one other person who plays multiplayer and isn't in the "scene" you describe :)

I think there is room for more than one "MP scene." Let's be hopeful there are enough people who want to play with all the toys (how could that not be?) that we can have servers where it is ok.

 

 

 

I for one have zero interest in the "Dogfight only" MP style of play, so there is at least one other person who plays multiplayer and isn't in the "scene" you describe :)

I'm afraid you might be right, but man, I hate this. Let's just stick with Sidewinders, Sparrows and bombs forever. I don't get this, why do people even cry for features they'll never use online?

I can't speak for anyone else, but I want these features for use offline, as I almost never play online. Mission building and the eventual Dynamic Campaign will allow plenty of great ways to use these features. For me, at least.

I can't speak for anyone else, but I want these features for use offline, as I almost never play online. Mission building and the eventual Dynamic Campaign will allow plenty of great ways to use these features. For me, at least.

JSOW-C IR seeker?

The F-18C has joined the JSOW series of weapons, which is very gratifying. But I found that the JSOW-C model had no IR seeker. Will the function of IR seeker be increased in the future? Will it come after SLAM-ER?

+1

The F-18C has joined the JSOW series of weapons, which is very gratifying. But I found that the JSOW-C model had no IR seeker. Will the function of IR seeker be increased in the future? Will it come after SLAM-ER?

I don't think the C model uses man in the loop at all so the IR seeker can be abstracted in the game.