No Love for motion?

Whats up Guys,

I have read a few thing here related to Motion. Does DCS World support it?

or is it just a generic motion, no kind of sync to on screen activity?

 

was looking into one, however it seams the racing sims have it down.

 

Spuco64

Sort of; DCS provides the tools to create plugins and apps that can read telemetry from the game. Simtools (what I use) has a plugin created from an export.lua that reads telemetry and sends that information to my motion controller. The telemetry possible is pretty detailed.

The SFX-100 (AASD) motion system is a proven and brilliant brute force DIY system. It does interface with DCS and has the pitch roll and heave aspects covered. But for the full effect though I feel that a g-seat on top of it is a must. Getting a good one without costing a fortune may be the problem at the moment. But know that motion is what VR is to a Monitor! :thumbup:

What about this?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bPhuUdkOJoU

So far the most impressive thing i saw...

What about this?

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bPhuUdkOJoU

 

So far the most impressive thing i saw...

It is impressive, but still does not have a yaw or heave axis. And it suffers from the lack of sustained G feeling through climbs or rolls.

I think bergisons seat is going to tick all the boxes...

It is impressive, but still does not have a yaw or heave axis. And it suffers from the lack of sustained G feeling through climbs or rolls.

I think bergisons seat is going to tick all the boxes...

Agreed.. Impressive. But certainly not realistic in terms of forces felt in flight.

I have an SFX100 motion rig at the moment but am eagerly awaiting DIY plans for Bergisons seat if he releases them...

Roller25, as you might know I try to point to bergisons g-seat everybody Who is looking for Motion. But in your case, as i know that you can Programm your own ideas in c# i would recommand to use simfeedback and the proven sfx 100 AC Motors for the g-seat. You can implement your ideas for specific planes and different simulators (fs 2020?) without waiting on someone Who might or might not export some parameters you need. Furthermore nobody stops you from building something with lots of power, because you do it on your own responsibility.

The description under the video says:

....IMPORTANT: This Simulator has a belt tension System with 80kg force to simulate Positive Gs (unfortunately not visible in this video). Even in a loop the Pilot is pressed into the Seat! Further the vertical acceleration (surge) of max. 0.9 G is simulated with OnSet Cueing (pitch up/down). Drift or Sway is done by rolling a little left and right. Together with Valve Index VR Headset the whole thing feels extremly realistic...

Sounds actually pretty good to me...

The description under the video says:

 

....IMPORTANT: This Simulator has a belt tension System with 80kg force to simulate Positive Gs (unfortunately not visible in this video). Even in a loop the Pilot is pressed into the Seat! Further the vertical acceleration (surge) of max. 0.9 G is simulated with OnSet Cueing (pitch up/down). Drift or Sway is done by rolling a little left and right. Together with Valve Index VR Headset the whole thing feels extremly realistic...

 

Sounds actually pretty good to me...

Sure. Those forces are probably pretty good. What kills it for me is banking turns. In that sim, the rig has you suspended on your side. That is not the correct force in a real aircraft during a banking turn.

Roller25, as you might know I try to point to bergisons g-seat everybody Who is looking for Motion. But in your case, as i know that you can Programm your own ideas in c# i would recommand to use simfeedback and the proven sfx 100 AC Motors for the g-seat. You can implement your ideas for specific planes and different simulators (fs 2020?) without waiting on someone Who might or might not export some parameters you need. Furthermore nobody stops you from building something with lots of power, because you do it on your own responsibility.

I am not sure I would ever part with my SFX100.. I've invested too much time into it. Perhaps a g-seat solution ontop of the SFX100 is the way to go.

That is not the correct force in a real aircraft during a banking turn.

That´s true, but how does the SFX 100 simulate/create the correct force in banking turns? Or upside down flight or climbing? Realy interested in that, but it´s hard for me to believe, that there is anything out there simulating those flight profiles better than this thing.But as i said, just thought that this looks pretty impressive. Not sure if it is realy practical or just a funny show off... However, what kills it for me in the first place, is propably the price...

Hm, Roller25 - unfortunately my english is very bad and i am not sure if my recommandation was misleading. I try it again just in case:

Stay with your sfx-100 platform and Mount a gseat on top. But for the g-Seat use 4 additional AC-motors which are controlled by simfeedback too. So you can use your skills to program in c# not only for the platform but also for the gseat. Sorry that my english is so bad.

That´s true, but how does the SFX 100 simulate/create the correct force in banking turns? Or upside down flight or climbing? Realy interested in that, but it´s hard for me to believe, that there is anything out there simulating those flight profiles better than this thing.But as i said, just thought that this looks pretty impressive. Not sure if it is realy practical or just a funny show off... However, what kills it for me in the first place, is propably the price...

The SFX100 does heave exceptionally well, but would need a g-seat set up on top to fill the void in forces. In a turn the load factor runs vertically through the aircraft. So whilst the SFX100 sinks with heave, the g-seat would apply pressure on the legs. Thats about as close we'll get in sims I think. This works even better in VR because when the SFX100 sinks, your view point also sinks in the sim giving the illusion of being pressed into the seat.

Hm, Roller25 - unfortunately my english is very bad and i am not sure if my recommandation was misleading. I try it again just in case:

Stay with your sfx-100 platform and Mount a gseat on top. But for the g-Seat use 4 additional AC-motors which are controlled by simfeedback too. So you can use your skills to program in c# not only for the platform but also for the gseat. Sorry that my english is so bad.

Completely understood you mate...

I think that's the direction I'll take. SFX100 with a g-seat mounted on top.

That sounds indeed pretty good. Also seems to be more practical than the 360° motion simulator, wich i think will exhaust you pretty fast in a dogfight. By the pictures i´ve seen about it, i´m ot sure if i understand the nature of the SFX 100... To me it seems to be a lift system only available as blueprint and i haven´t seen one for sale. So you´d have to built it up by yourself, or can you purchase the parts and just have to put it together?

It seems to be very similar to this one:

https://www.rseat-europe.com/RSeat-Motion-Simulators-DBOX-Dynamic-Seats/N1-D-BOX-Motion-Simulator/N1-M4A-6000-Black-DBOX-Motion-Simulator

Or am i wrong?

you can't buy it, you need to build it.

See https://opensfx.com/

SFX-100 basically is nothing but four actuators. Your rig probably can be reused (if already existing) or you also need to build one. However, the actuators are very powerful so the rig needs to be quite sturdy, otherwise you'll end up with some confetti spread in your room :cry:

here you can see my system (platform + g-seat) and the motion i like in action:

flight around vegas with start roll looping and landing, btw the airstream is simulated too and gives you a good feeling for your speed:

how the shoulder belt for negative forces is working:

how the gravity belt for positive g's is working:

how the hip seatbelt for negative forces is working:

The flaps can simulate only positive forces. So alltogether i can feel a lot of forces in harmony plus the movement of the platform that is good for my blalance-system.

hope this gives some ideas for people interested in motion in connection with flying sims.

That´s true, but how does the SFX 100 simulate/create the correct force in banking turns? Or upside down flight or climbing? Realy interested in that, but it´s hard for me to believe, that there is anything out there simulating those flight profiles better than this thing.But as i said, just thought that this looks pretty impressive. Not sure if it is realy practical or just a funny show off... However, what kills it for me in the first place, is propably the price...

When banking an aircraft the forces push you straight down in the seat unless you are flying uncoordinated. Too little rudder (slipping) you feel like your slightly falling inside the turn, too much (skidding) and you feel like your falling outside the turn. Subtle roll cues can recreate this with astonishing fidelity and SFX 100 has 100mm travel to work with. Sure it can only replicate forces to a certain level, but it doesn't take a lot to accurately mimic most phases of real flight. Accurate suggestions of acceleration are the name of the game.

Pitch roll and heave like are enough to accomplish this, even with 100mm travel actuators but those 360 carnival platforms are for kids and arcades as they don't' even come close to replicating what flying feels like.

Well, the SFX-100 of course is very limited in its motion regarding a 360° simulation.

But that actually isn't the point. Together with VR the brain is very efficiently fooled since what it sees fits what the body feels. So the actual motion from the SFX-100 is kind of amplified in the brain and all motion feels much more real than one would expect before.

Saying that, without VR I'd say DCS and SFX-100 is pointless. That's quite different for Sim Racing because the four actuators ARE able to almost completely simulate the motion of a car.

Thinking to build a SFX100. Its the most afordable platform with enough power for a Motion-Simpit combination.

What will be a problem is motioncompensation/cancellation. Found no solution for WMR or inside-out tracking headsets.

How do you deal with it?

Waiting for the commercial version of this one myself: https://bergisons.simpit.info/motion-integrated-g-seat

 

Whenever it is available, I will jump on it. :thumbup:

If he paid less than 1500€ for his prototype seat, then I could believe someone could make it even under 1000€ depending the parts and material that is already available to them.

When a G-force seat like his cost less than 2000€, it is amazing affordable price for a real fighter wannabe....

When banking an aircraft the forces push you straight down in the seat unless you are flying uncoordinated. Too little rudder (slipping) you feel like your slightly falling inside the turn, too much (skidding) and you feel like your falling outside the turn. Subtle roll cues can recreate this with astonishing fidelity and SFX 100 has 100mm travel to work with. Sure it can only replicate forces to a certain level, but it doesn't take a lot to accurately mimic most phases of real flight. Accurate suggestions of acceleration are the name of the game.

 

 

 

Pitch roll and heave like are enough to accomplish this, even with 100mm travel actuators but those 360 carnival platforms are for kids and arcades as they don't' even come close to replicating what flying feels like.

As far I can quickly now imagine, the only thing that this simple SFX-100 platform can't simulate is upside-down flying in 1G, where you would feel that you are getting light headed etc. But if one doesn't fly upside-down long periods, it wouldn't be a problem.

As far I can quickly now imagine, the only thing that this simple SFX-100 platform can't simulate is upside-down flying in 1G, where you would feel that you are getting light headed etc. But if one doesn't fly upside-down long periods, it wouldn't be a problem.

You get some motion cues which make you believe, that you are flying upside down. The platform moves higher, so that you fear to fall out of the cockpit in vr for example. But to really feel the negative g-forces on your shoulders you need a harness. In this video I made a year ago you can see that you can build a g-seat with harness on top of every motion platform without extra motors. This is not perfect in all situations, but in most. It is better than a platform without a g-seat.

But its a bit dangerous because you connect a harness indirectly with the power of the actuators. Please be carefull with experimenting!

Thinking to build a SFX100. Its the most afordable platform with enough power for a Motion-Simpit combination.

What will be a problem is motioncompensation/cancellation. Found no solution for WMR or inside-out tracking headsets.

How do you deal with it?

I use rift cv1 without Motion cancellation , the sensors are standing on the fixed Monitor Table in Front of me. I setup the Motion so, that i feel is what i see. But have no experience with inside out tracking, so we have to wait for a definitive reverb user...

works like a charm with the Samsung Odyssey, HP Reverb and Rift S.

HarryHarry, your SFX-100 system looks great. Many thanks for sharing the videos.

My experience using the Bergison G-seat is that no motion cancellation is required either, due to the motion distances and angles being somewhat equivalent to what you'd expect for those given forces in the cockpit. Under g-load, the eyepoint lowers slightly, under negative-g it raises up, etc.