HARM TOO - What am I doing wrong?

Hey guys, just return to the Hornet for the first time in a while... and apparently I've become an idiot in that time.

 

Practicing the various weapons, got to the HARM and TOO mode and I cannot understand what stupid mistake I'm making. Simple set-up of a Tunguska ahead - master arm is on, a/g mode is on, too mode is selected, hand-off is done on the target and marked as H-OFF, even use the RAID/FLIR button even though no other targets are possible. Coming in at about 15,000ft and launching 400kts+, at about 7 to 8nm and pointing the Harm's POV cross at the target... but the first Harm ALWAYS lofts and goes off and does its own thing. The second launch occasionally finds the target and the 3rd and 4th are always fine.

 

I do not know what stupid mistake I'm making that makes the first launch always fail to lock and the rest find the target... Tried this a dozen times now.

 

I've included a short track file. Thanks for any help, and excuse the obviousness of the question...

harmtoo.trk

dowloaded your track tried it the first 2 i fired did go straight for a while than they both lofted for a couple of seconds than they both traversed back to the target both hit the target. Tried it a few times 1 than 2 than 4 all hit targets. So maybe its just one of those things

It’s really weird. Only happens for me in your track. All other HARM scenarios are ok.

Who knows?

lol, in first place, as far as i know, HARM in TOO mode should NOT loft, considering they do not know the target distance.

i think its just DCS bugs at work.

in first place, as far as i know, HARM in TOO mode should NOT loft, considering they do not know the target distance.

They do not know the distance in SP mode as well, but AFAIR they also loft in SP. Don't know if this behaviour is intended or a bug.

They do not know the distance in SP mode as well, but AFAIR they also loft in SP. Don't know if this behaviour is intended or a bug.

 

Well, can anyone repeat this behaviour in any other scenario except this track? I can't.

lol, in first place, as far as i know, HARM in TOO mode should NOT loft, considering they do not know the target distance.

i think its just DCS bugs at work.

They can make an approximation of range. They know altitude and depression angle to target, that's enough to make a rough guess at range. Making a lofting attack would be pretty easy as well, all you need to do is program the missile to fly at a specific pitch until the target is a specific number of degrees below the horizon, then pitch down onto the target.

 

I've no idea if the HARM actually does fly a lofted profile in TOO in real life, but the technology is there for it to be possible.

Well, can anyone repeat this behaviour in any other scenario except this track? I can't.

You're right. I cannot reproduce this. Neither in TOO nor in SP mode. Just tested. But I observed lofting HARMs a few month ago - at least in TOO mode.

 

EDIT: While analyzing the flight I observed, that at least one of four HARMs, launced at 33k ft AGL in SP mode climbed up to 39k ft AGL. Similar behaviour in TOO mode: the third (launch at 33k) of four went down to 32k initially and climbed then to 36k. But each of the eight HARMs destroyed it's target.

FA18C AGM-88C HARM SP.trk

FA18C AGM-88C HARM TOO.trk

Tacview.zip

Edited August 3, 2020 by AstonMartinDBS

lol, in first place, as far as i know, HARM in TOO mode should NOT loft, considering they do not know the target distance.

i think its just DCS bugs at work.

I don't understand. In the included 'Fighter Sweep' mission I have taken to loading two harms. As soon as I get my climb stabilized I set up the harms and always have the little square around the target showing on the HUD. I used to wait til I hit my goal of 20,000ft (that is the 4 Migs altitude) and then launch them. Recently I started launching at about 15,000. Are you saying it knows the line of sight location of the target but not the distance? They always appear to loft to me watching their smoke trail. Also they always both hit from both heights and distances..

Whoa....that's weird...the exact same thing happened to me last night. I'd been away from DCS for about a month, updated to latest beta.

 

Flew a mission I had done a dozen times before, almost exact same setup as LooseSeal except I was reading about 5 targets at 30,000 when I initiated a dive. Handoff showed good @23,000 and fired, then toggled to another...H-off and fired again. Repeated for last 2 HARMs and during egress watched 3 of the 4 loft to the heavens and head off toward the sea (Batumi) 90 degrees off target. WTF....flew back to Kutaisi, re-armed and the exact same thing happened again. 3 of 4 HARMs seemed to go rogue on me after a confirmed H-off with targets on center of screen.

 

I didn't save the track because I noticed new screens on the DDI so figured I had some new shit to learn about HARM TOO. So I can confirm what LooseSeal experienced and will try it again and save track.

Ok so I guess I wasn't crazy after all, I just started working with HARMs and tried the weapon qualification mission but had missiles almost always lofting off in the distance against an SA-8. I copied and edited the mission itself (attached) but the only occasions I had of the HARM hitting the single SA-8 was just before or after being locked by the SA-8.

Attached is a track of me shooting off 4 missiles with some time between all of them, none hitting their target. And the modified mission itself (basically only deleted all other sam system and waypoints).

harmbug.trk

Test FA-18C AGM-88C HARM.miz

Just fixing to start to learn HARM's. So this is real issue question to you experienced folks here. If it's a new bug... just wonderful, its another 'well it used to work' item that is now broken? I guess I will still look at training and learn the HARM anyway I suppose.

 

 

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