DCS Update Patch Notes Discussion Thread

What is this vr update everyone is talking about?

In a nutshell, a big boost in performance for VR users.

In a nutshell, a big boost in performance for VR users.

Thanks. This is interesting.

Any specific visual improvements or something like that?

I mean, I was expecting something major from all the fuzz and people seem they can't wait for this patch. Never experienced performance issues on cv1

Thanks. This is interesting.

 

Any specific visual improvements or something like that?

 

I mean, I was expecting something major from all the fuzz and people seem they can't wait for this patch. Never experienced performance issues on cv1

I'd say either you aren't too picky about frame rate, or you are satisfied with lowish graphics settings. Do you not have your CV1 set up to supersample DCS?

My system is not bad, 7700K at 5Ghz and a GTX 1080 but performance has always been marginal for me, sometimes much worse than that. I should mention though, Oculus ASW did a pretty great job of making the performance issues drastically less noticeable. When I switched to Vive it was a much bigger problem. Now I think SteamVR is probably on par with Oculus in that regard, but I haven't taken out the Oculus to compare directly. Oculus doesn't play well with motion sims, and Facebook are douchebags and won't open source anything so there's no real hope for a reliable fix.

Anyway, to answer your actual question Wags originally stated that they had achieved about a 50% frame rate increase in VR after they optimized the terrain engine for it and we've been foaming at the mouth ever since!

Unfortunately it turned out that the fix did not work for all systems (unknown whether it's certain HMD's that do/don't work, different GPU's, or what. I think I remember them saying the fix actually decreased frame rate for some users, which is why they have to figure it out and fix it before they can send it out to us.

PS- For now the performance boost will be for Caucasus and Persian Gulf maps only. Nevada to follow, no expectation for Normandy to get it any time soon as it's up to the third party who are focused 100% on their Syria map. =/

I'd say either you aren't too picky about frame rate, or you are satisfied with lowish graphics settings. Do you not have your CV1 set up to supersample DCS?

 

My system is not bad, 7700K at 5Ghz and a GTX 1080 but performance has always been marginal for me, sometimes much worse than that. I should mention though, Oculus ASW did a pretty great job of making the performance issues drastically less noticeable. When I switched to Vive it was a much bigger problem. Now I think SteamVR is probably on par with Oculus in that regard, but I haven't taken out the Oculus to compare directly. Oculus doesn't play well with motion sims, and Facebook are douchebags and won't open source anything so there's no real hope for a reliable fix.

 

 

Anyway, to answer your actual question Wags originally stated that they had achieved about a 50% frame rate increase in VR after they optimized the terrain engine for it and we've been foaming at the mouth ever since!

 

Unfortunately it turned out that the fix did not work for all systems (unknown whether it's certain HMD's that do/don't work, different GPU's, or what. I think I remember them saying the fix actually decreased frame rate for some users, which is why they have to figure it out and fix it before they can send it out to us.

 

PS- For now the performance boost will be for Caucasus and Persian Gulf maps only. Nevada to follow, no expectation for Normandy to get it any time soon as it's up to the third party who are focused 100% on their Syria map. =/

can you give a source for your comment in paragraph saying

Unfortunately it turned out that the fix did not work for all systems (unknown whether it's certain HMD's that do/don't work, different GPU's, or what. I think I remember them saying the fix actually decreased frame rate for some users, which is why they have to figure it out and fix it before they can send it out to us.

 

--snippage--

 

PS- For now the performance boost will be for Caucasus and Persian Gulf maps only. Nevada to follow, no expectation for Normandy to get it any time soon as it's up to the third party who are focused 100% on their Syria map. =/

Although timelines are not promised, Nineline confirmed that Ugra (sp?), the makers of Normandy map will be adding the VR optimization.

Just and FYI for those new to the VR update. Initially it was "it's up to them to fix....." Now it's confirmed that they will fix it.

Looks like they have fixed the ALL Core usage with this update! Thank you ED!!!

 

After the latest update, when I start DCS - ALL cores are now in use by default.

No. DCS is still only two-threaded program (in regards of the simulation itself) - rendering, physics, AI and so on run on the same single thread. Windows just shuffles them over multiple cores (suboptimal scheduling) for some reason for some people, which causes the easily misinterpretable results in task manager.

I'd say either you aren't too picky about frame rate, or you are satisfied with lowish graphics settings. Do you not have your CV1 set up to supersample DCS?

 

My system is not bad, 7700K at 5Ghz and a GTX 1080 but performance has always been marginal for me, sometimes much worse than that. I should mention though, Oculus ASW did a pretty great job of making the performance issues drastically less noticeable. When I switched to Vive it was a much bigger problem. Now I think SteamVR is probably on par with Oculus in that regard, but I haven't taken out the Oculus to compare directly. Oculus doesn't play well with motion sims, and Facebook are douchebags and won't open source anything so there's no real hope for a reliable fix.

 

 

Anyway, to answer your actual question Wags originally stated that they had achieved about a 50% frame rate increase in VR after they optimized the terrain engine for it and we've been foaming at the mouth ever since!

 

Unfortunately it turned out that the fix did not work for all systems (unknown whether it's certain HMD's that do/don't work, different GPU's, or what. I think I remember them saying the fix actually decreased frame rate for some users, which is why they have to figure it out and fix it before they can send it out to us.

 

PS- For now the performance boost will be for Caucasus and Persian Gulf maps only. Nevada to follow, no expectation for Normandy to get it any time soon as it's up to the third party who are focused 100% on their Syria map. =/

I'm definitely picky about frame rate, specially in VR. even occasional stuttering isn't acceptable, I even bought a nvme to install dcs because my previous ssd was causing some stutter.

I'm also very picky about graphic quality, in fact I model and render 3d models for a living. now, quality wise, well, it's VR. I'm definitely not running at potato quality, in fact it's set to the highest possible for my system without performance drops, but this gen of VR headsets can only get so far regarding graphics, beyond that the screen door effect always takes away the extra realism that minor graphic improvements could add. I honestly can barely tell the difference between my current settings and everything maxed out, besides more autogen density, some distance shadows, etc. but I'd say it looks as good as it gets.

and regarding your comment of performance being marginal for you, well I've been playing DCS in VR for almost a year since I bought my rift. my performance should be slightly worse than yours on my 1800x / gtx 980ti, but no aspects of graphic quality or performance have ever bothered me, beside the stuttering I mentioned.

I have to admit I must be a few updates behind, and if I had to guess I'd say something big must have improved regarding graphic quality in the last updates. so I'll have to update right now and see if I notice any difference regarding quality and performance, then I can tell you something more concrete

Although timelines are not promised, Nineline confirmed that Ugra (sp?), the makers of Normandy map will be adding the VR optimization.

 

Just and FYI for those new to the VR update. Initially it was "it's up to them to fix....." Now it's confirmed that they will fix it.

How did I miss that!? I've been watching pretty close. That is fantastic news.

can you give a source for your comment in paragraph saying

 

Unfortunately it turned out that the fix did not work for all systems (unknown whether it's certain HMD's that do/don't work, different GPU's, or what. I think I remember them saying the fix actually decreased frame rate for some users, which is why they have to figure it out and fix it before they can send it out to us.

Hmm... I can't find the message so maybe I imagined that bit! Closest thing I found was this https://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=3937354&postcount=58 but I would have sworn there was a post about the VR fix working for some systems and not others.

Truth be told as much as I've had this topic on my mind I truly might have dreamed it, not even kidding!

I only dug through NineLine and Wags posts, so I guess there is a small chance it was posted by someone else. Also I looked through as fast as I could so I could have missed it.

I'm definitely picky about frame rate, specially in VR. even occasional stuttering isn't acceptable, I even bought a nvme to install dcs because my previous ssd was causing some stutter.

 

I'm also very picky about graphic quality, in fact I model and render 3d models for a living. now, quality wise, well, it's VR. I'm definitely not running at potato quality, in fact it's set to the highest possible for my system without performance drops, but this gen of VR headsets can only get so far regarding graphics, beyond that the screen door effect always takes away the extra realism that minor graphic improvements could add. I honestly can barely tell the difference between my current settings and everything maxed out, besides more autogen density, some distance shadows, etc. but I'd say it looks as good as it gets.

 

and regarding your comment of performance being marginal for you, well I've been playing DCS in VR for almost a year since I bought my rift. my performance should be slightly worse than yours on my 1800x / gtx 980ti, but no aspects of graphic quality or performance have ever bothered me, beside the stuttering I mentioned.

 

I have to admit I must be a few updates behind, and if I had to guess I'd say something big must have improved regarding graphic quality in the last updates. so I'll have to update right now and see if I notice any difference regarding quality and performance, then I can tell you something more concrete

@fael097 I meant no offense, hope you didn't take that the wrong way!

I actually haven't really truly spent any time in DCS in a very long time for many different reasons, poor performance being one of the main ones but I was also super busy with other stuff for an extended period of time.

I've just recently become really active on the forums again because I'm finally ready to go back to all-in on DCS! That's partially because of the promise of massive VR performance improvements. Also my simulator is almost back to flight ready, just a few more days I think! And then Reverb end of the month.... it's looking like a good few weeks coming at me. =)

PS- For now the performance boost will be for Caucasus and Persian Gulf maps only. Nevada to follow, no expectation for Normandy to get it any time soon as it's up to the third party who are focused 100% on their Syria map. =/

Normandy VR improvement confirmed https://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=3949407&postcount=1.

Hmm... I can't find the message so maybe I imagined that bit! Closest thing I found was this https://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=3937354&postcount=58 but I would have sworn there was a post about the VR fix working for some systems and not others.

Is it possible you mixed the discussion of VR terrain improvements with the discussion about Pimax users getting some 30% boost messing with Nvidia drivers, that wasn't working for everyone?

That's the only thing I can think of that sounds like what you were saying.

No. DCS is still only two-threaded program (in regards of the simulation itself) - rendering, physics, AI and so on run on the same single thread. Windows just shuffles them over multiple cores (suboptimal scheduling) for some reason for some people, which causes the easily misinterpretable results in task manager.

I'm taking a second look at that and this time more proper, possibly may change a bit, more stuff might have been offloaded off the main core.

Hmm... I can't find the message so maybe I imagined that bit! Closest thing I found was this https://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=3937354&postcount=58 but I would have sworn there was a post about the VR fix working for some systems and not others.

 

Here it is https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?p=3948098#post3948098

Here it is https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?p=3948098#post3948098

Aha! Thanks Etirion, I didn't imagine it! @Rocky49 that is the source you requested. =) LASooner, not a bad thought but turns out I had it right after all. Everyone make a note, it's not that often I remember something correctly!

Aha! Thanks Etirion, I didn't imagine it! @Rocky49 that is the source you requested. =) LASooner, not a bad thought but turns out I had it right after all. Everyone make a note, it's not that often I remember something correctly!

Actually what Wag said was not as specific as your comment alluded to, more of a general statement that they were not satisfied with that implementation

No. DCS is still only two-threaded program (in regards of the simulation itself) - rendering, physics, AI and so on run on the same single thread. Windows just shuffles them over multiple cores (suboptimal scheduling) for some reason for some people, which causes the easily misinterpretable results in task manager.[/QUO

 

Not misinterpreting Task Manager. With the default 1 core, I get around 20 FPS in VR. With ALL cores I get around 40 FPS and it is as smooth as silk. If I try with just 2 cores, I get a sound issue.

 

And, it looks like ED haven't fixed it. For some reason when I started DCS 3 times yesterday, it defaulted to using ALL cores. Tonight when I flew, the performance was really bad. I checked, and it had defaulted back to only using 1 core. Not sure why it does this - very frustrating. Back to setting it to ALL manually.

No. DCS is still only two-threaded program (in regards of the simulation itself) - rendering, physics, AI and so on run on the same single thread. Windows just shuffles them over multiple cores (suboptimal scheduling) for some reason for some people, which causes the easily misinterpretable results in task manager.[/QUO

 

Not misinterpreting Task Manager. With the default 1 core, I get around 20 FPS in VR. With ALL cores I get around 40 FPS and it is as smooth as silk. If I try with just 2 cores, I get a sound issue.

 

And, it looks like ED haven't fixed it. For some reason when I started DCS 3 times yesterday, it defaulted to using ALL cores. Tonight when I flew, the performance was really bad. I checked, and it had defaulted back to only using 1 core. Not sure why it does this - very frustrating. Back to setting it to ALL manually.

 

Honestly, I don’t think this is an ED thing. There is no way they would code it to use a single core only. I was quite surprised by your statement that somehow ED had fixed this situation.

No. DCS is still only two-threaded program (in regards of the simulation itself) - rendering, physics, AI and so on run on the same single thread. Windows just shuffles them over multiple cores (suboptimal scheduling) for some reason for some people, which causes the easily misinterpretable results in task manager.[/QUO

 

Not misinterpreting Task Manager. With the default 1 core, I get around 20 FPS in VR. With ALL cores I get around 40 FPS and it is as smooth as silk. If I try with just 2 cores, I get a sound issue.

 

And, it looks like ED haven't fixed it. For some reason when I started DCS 3 times yesterday, it defaulted to using ALL cores. Tonight when I flew, the performance was really bad. I checked, and it had defaulted back to only using 1 core. Not sure why it does this - very frustrating. Back to setting it to ALL manually.

 

 

You can download Process Lasso (bitsum.com) and have it do this for you automatically. If you're getting empirical evidence that it helps, go with it.

 

Honestly, I don’t think this is an ED thing. There is no way they would code it to use a single core only. I was quite surprised by your statement that somehow ED had fixed this situation.

It used a lot of threads, the main point is how much of the work that matters is split up, it does seem more favorable than the hard-2-core-only conclusion that I got last time. I'm explaining about that as we speak in the other thread how I think I made a fatal flaw by using a barebone test to do the thread analysis. https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=242646&page=5

It still led me to other discoveries like the thread bouncing thing.

No. DCS is still only two-threaded program (in regards of the simulation itself) - rendering, physics, AI and so on run on the same single thread. Windows just shuffles them over multiple cores (suboptimal scheduling) for some reason for some people, which causes the easily misinterpretable results in task manager.

I'll be putting some of the replies about multi-threading into a better suited wishlist thread here that's going rounds at this time: https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?p=3953342#post3953342

It used a lot of threads, the main point is how much of the work that matters is split up, it does seem more favorable than the hard-2-core-only conclusion that I got last time. I'm explaining about that as we speak in the other thread how I think I made a fatal flaw by using a barebone test to do the thread analysis. https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=242646&page=5

 

It still led me to other discoveries like the thread bouncing thing.

So I've read a few of your posts and I've not seen you mention it, so I think there's a chance your assumption might be flawed as you appear to be missing a piece of knowledge when doing your tests:

Modules can use as many threads as they like.

HB have been quite forthright is saying a bunch of the performance stuff they've done has been shuffling things to other threads, like radar, systems etc...

I'd imagine others, even ED, have done similar too.

With that in mind, what have your tests been like?

If you've been flying a module in them, thread usage could be due to that, rather than the core engine moving off 2 cores.

Beware of using too much cores, it can be a bad choice. If your cores have good IPC and high frequency, and you can run everything in 1 or 2 cores, you'll have much more cache hits, since L1 and L2 caches are per core.

Diferences can be huge, for example MATLAB 2013 solved a Matrix Inverse faster using 1 core, thatn using all the 4 cores.

And, it looks like ED haven't fixed it. For some reason when I started DCS 3 times yesterday, it defaulted to using ALL cores. Tonight when I flew, the performance was really bad. I checked, and it had defaulted back to only using 1 core. Not sure why it does this - very frustrating. Back to setting it to ALL manually.

There is a config file where you can set you core affinity for DCS ... I have it for 2 cores, that gives me the smoothest gameplay.

https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=118535

There is a config file where you can set you core affinity for DCS ... I have it for 2 cores, that gives me the smoothest gameplay.

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