JDAM implementation.

You are correct.

 

With two or more selected targetpoints, all steering cues on the HUD are towards the centroid, not the targets. The EHSD shows centroid and selected targets, but the distance is so small that they usually show as a single point.

I think your implementation is somewhat flawed, however. The centroid should be on the ideal LAR's centroid for the current heading, not the targets themselves.

If such a point does not exist because the targets are too far apart, multiple QTY release should show no LAR and should not allow the release of bombs.

Currently, it is possible to have overlapping LAR's, that, when you get to the target and flying to the centroid, the LARs shrink past the aircraft, since you aren't flying towards either target.

Here is an illustration I've made to visualize the concept. The aircraft bearing in this example would to the center of the two targets

I think your implementation is somewhat flawed, however. The centroid should be on the ideal LAR's centroid for the current heading, not the targets themselves.

 

If such a point does not exist because the targets are too far apart, multiple QTY release should show no LAR and should not allow the release of bombs.

 

Currently, it is possible to have overlapping LAR's, that, when you get to the target and flying to the centroid, the LARs shrink past the aircraft, since you aren't flying towards either target.

 

Here is an illustration I've made to visualize the concept. The aircraft bearing in this example would to the center of the two targets

I've come to a similar conclusion.

But I'm pretty sure it's not supposed to steer to the centroid but rather the current priority (closest) target, as it'd be possible that the steering dot sends you to a point in the sky that you couldn't release a weapon at all if it was centroid-based and the selected targets were too far apart... Not much of a "steering cue" then, is it?

Once the current priority target is engaged, it should switch to the next closest target in the queue. If multiple targets happen to be in LAR, that would be signified by those target numbers enlarging in the queue beneath the circle.

Engaged targets go to the left of the letter, targets whose LARs are passed through without a drop get thrown back in the queue on the right as small numbers.

I've come to a similar conclusion.

 

But I'm pretty sure it's not supposed to steer to the centroid but rather the current priority (closest) target, as it'd be possible that the steering dot sends you to a point in the sky that you couldn't release a weapon at all if it was centroid-based and the selected targets were too far apart... Not much of a "steering cue" then, is it?

 

Once the current priority target is engaged, it should switch to the next closest target in the queue. If multiple targets happen to be in LAR, that would be signified by those target numbers enlarging in the queue beneath the circle.

 

Engaged targets go to the left of the letter, targets whose LARs are passed through without a drop get thrown back in the queue on the right as small numbers.

It is supposed to steer to the centroid, just the centroid of LAR parameters, not the centroid of targets. The behavior you're describing is due to the centroid being placed at the target centroid instead of the LAR overlap area's center with respect to bearing at the moment.

Basically, chart a differential equation to determine the range point where LARs are the largest for the current aircraft heading. Now compute where those areas overlap. The center of that overlapping area is your centroid. If all areas do not overlap for the targets selected, then no centroid can be displayed and release should be prohibited.

Check out my graph. The red fan shaped location is such that the drop can be performed on both targets and represents that overlapping shape by the time the aircraft got to it. If you turned to the right of TGT2's LAR, no acceptable solution would exist, and so no LAR would be displayed.

The target centroid is useful in that flying towards it will take you through that LAR, should one exist, you just need to watch your display for all numbers to become bold and ignore the %'s, because that % only applies to the closest target, not the best chance for hitting all targets. Of course, this goes out the window if terminal paremeters are ever considered. In that case the raw target centroid would be of little value. Picture two targets along your axis of travel, with attack azimuth 180deg of one another. If you flew to the space between the targets, the centroid would not have taken you through the release zone, and, upon arriving at the location, you would find you couldn't drop on EITHER target.

Finally, the % should be the % you are in the center of the fan shape.

When ED does JDAMS AUTO/LOFT mode for the FA18, if they do it properly, you will see this in action when QTY of more than 1 station is selected.

What I'm saying is that hypothetically you will have targets selected whose LARs do not overlap.

Release should not be prohibited, because a sequential drop should still be possible, and this is how the target contributor system in the Harrier is supposed to work, by prioritizing targets from closest to furthest in the queue beneath the circle.

It steers you to the closest target / centroid of the closest target's LAR, and once engaged the steering dot should point to the next closest target's LAR centroid, and so on.

I can't speak for whether it's the same in the F/A-18, but I think it's a mistake to assume they work the same since the interfaces are already very different.

I think you might be right on that, I shouldn't assume it works the same as in the Hornet.

However, without taking into account overlapping LARs, ambiguity sets in. Where exactly should you fly? To the nearest target's 100% mark? If the next target's 100% mark doesn't overlap, the system would be taking you to a point where only one drop is possible, then a hard 90 degree turn could be necessary to make the next drop, when what you should have done is navigated to the best center point and dropped both there. Since the system couldn't possibly know that you want to drop those 2 in pair, that 1 separate, then another, there is likely an explicit process for this. I'm willing to bet the Harrier has a way to explicitly declare whether you plan to do a sequential drop or a simultaneous one. This is essentially one of the key differences between AUTO and MAN in the Hornet.

I just can't imagine when using a weapon that has so much pre-planning capability as the JDAM that they would inject this sort of ambiguity into the process.

See the picture below. Where would the Harrier guide you in such a scenario? In the Hornet, if you had MAN, it would show you the active station, then the next one, then the next one. No problem. If you had it in AUTO, it would tell you that you can't drop all 3 at once. If you removed TGT3, it would provide a solution for TGT1 and 2 similar to my previous picture.

What should the Harrier tell you to do? If TGT1 is active, and it sends you to TGT1's LAR median, you will be out of TGT2's median and likely will have to loop to the right and approach from the west to hit it, then turn left and hit TGT3. I guess you could say "well look at the circles" but they may not look that way when you get there due to the aforementioned reasons. Over a target is not the time to figure out that the drop point overlap you chose wasn't valid or even possible. The communication between pilot and airframe at this point is ambiguous.

It is my belief the only logical solution is you intend to attack the targets you selcted simultaneously, else you would have only selected the one target you plan to attack at a time, E.G. select TG1 and TGT2, drop your bombs, then select TGT3. This is why they bother to plot the centroid in the first place. RAZ has it modeled accurately that whenever you change the TGT list after it has been assumed, it resets, so you don't have to deactivate TGT1 and TGT2 when you press TGT3 after your first drop. In this way, it doesn't work exactly as it does in the Hornet, but it is at least coherent from a systems perspective.

How do you think it should work? As currently modeled?

EDIT: Also, now that I think about it, what should it tell you if approach this from the west? The centroid doesn't allow for release of a single bomb. Going to the 100% of TGT3, then 2, then 1 would give you the most efficient sequential release in this case, but in the example for the south approach such a tactic leads to a LESS efficient drop strategy.

The missing piece of the puzzle is that there are supposed to be numbered whiskers drawn on the EHSD between your selected target contributors and your ownship that show you the min/max LARs for the various targets you have selected, which is intended to be a visual depiction of where you should maneuver the aircraft if you're engaging multiple targets simultaneously. Whiskers for targets that you will be in LAR for on your current flight path look different than whiskers for targets that you won't be in LAR for on your current flight path.

In the Harrier, there is no selection of active stations or assigning bombs to coordinates - you merely select your J82/83s and the aircraft assigns bombs to target contributors automatically based on the number of target contributors selected and the number of bombs on the aircraft. QTY isn't user selectable and will always display how many bombs are on the aircraft divided by the number of targets selected. It will absolutely let you pick more targets than you have bombs for.

The aircraft is supposed to drop on all targets that are in LAR with each press of the pickle button, so the pilot is supposed to delay their engagement of multiple targets until they are all in LAR (big numbers next to the N) to avoid accidentally re-engaging target contributors already serviced.

In your example, you've got it right with the red path there as far as the steering dot is concerned. But like I said, there are supposed to be whiskers drawn on the EHSD that would allow the pilot to choose to fly the blue path if that's their intent (one pickle press where your red and blue paths intersect, and one entering the third target's LAR).

The missing piece of the puzzle is that there are supposed to be numbered whiskers drawn on the EHSD between your selected target contributors and your ownship that show you the min/max LARs for the various targets you have selected, which is intended to be a visual depiction of where you should maneuver the aircraft if you're engaging multiple targets simultaneously. Whiskers for targets that you will be in LAR for on your current flight path look different than whiskers for targets that you won't be in LAR for on your current flight path.

 

In the Harrier, there is no selection of active stations or assigning bombs to coordinates - you merely select your J82/83s and the aircraft assigns bombs to target contributors automatically based on the number of target contributors selected and the number of bombs on the aircraft. QTY isn't user selectable and will always display how many bombs are on the aircraft divided by the number of targets selected. It will absolutely let you pick more targets than you have bombs for.

 

The aircraft is supposed to drop on all targets that are in LAR with each press of the pickle button, so the pilot is supposed to delay their engagement of multiple targets until they are all in LAR (big numbers next to the N) to avoid accidentally re-engaging target contributors already serviced.

 

In your example, you've got it right with the red path there as far as the steering dot is concerned. But like I said, there are supposed to be whiskers drawn on the EHSD that would allow the pilot to choose to fly the blue path if that's their intent (one pickle press where your red and blue paths intersect, and one entering the third target's LAR).

Ah, now that makes a whole lot more sense. Very unique way of doing it. I think I like it better than the Hornet setup. A lot of smart ideas hidden in that Harrier.

I hope they implement this. Seems like a key feature.

Will we be able to add targets through the mission editor similar to the Ka-50?

Has this been released or do i need to reload the aircraft? When was the update?

Has this been released or do i need to reload the aircraft? When was the update?

It’s out for open beta, not sure if it’s on stable yet.

I can use the JDAMS but can only get four to release together. Razbams facebook page said the harrier could now do 10 - How do we do that. Mine only allows me to do 4 when I have 8 jdams loaded out. I assume I missing something.

I have look at the mudspike guide and the tutorials but thats seems limited to 4.

I can use the JDAMS but can only get four to release together. Razbams facebook page said the harrier could now do 10 - How do we do that. Mine only allows me to do 4 when I have 8 jdams loaded out. I assume I missing something.

AFAIK the Harrier is limited to 4 Target Points in DCS 2.5.541371

Now you can engage up to 10 targetpoints with the JDAMs. Number of targets is limited by bomb count on the aircraft.

I believe Zeus67 was likely talking about their internal build and planned new feature(s) i.e. modelling elements of a OFP newer than H4.0, to allow dropping multiple JDAMS from DITER's.

Thanks

Its available now in the last update. Love the 8 bomb ripple in one run

Its available now in the last update. Love the 8 bomb ripple in one run

How did you ripple 8 in one run?

Why were there no patch notes?

Hey guys,

 

I’ve been relatively successful in employing and delivering JDAM’s so far. Welcome addition to the Harrier. :thumbup:

 

I know that it’s still a work in progress, but when I return to base, I’d like to reload another round and go out after another set of targets. Has anyone found a way to remove,or delete the old targets off the CAS page? Deleting the marks off the map doesn’t seem to do it. Adding new marks just adds to the list. Re-loading the plane is the only way I’ve found so far.

Hi Does anyone have the answer to this please, I have searched but thus far unsuccessfully ?

 

 

How did you ripple 8 in one run?

Select the JDAMS from the store page,

on the upper left select panel (option display unit) Press TGT, select 1,2,3,4 (colon : appears on selected TGTs),

Press TGT again, 5,6,7,8 appears, select at will

Press TGT again for 9 and X (ten) select at will

Select Exit

I play on a server that doesn't show the enemy targets on the F10map (Hoggit) but can get coords from a web app and I'm fine with entering them manually on the CAS page etc..

Does the Harrier have any way of manually entering more precise coords like the F18 does?

When I return to base, I’d like to reload another round and go out after another set of targets. Has anyone found a way to remove,or delete the old targets off the CAS page? Deleting the marks off the map doesn’t seem to do it. Adding new marks just adds to the list. Re-loading the plane is the only way I’ve found so far.

 

Hi Does anyone have the answer to this please, I have searched but thus far unsuccessfully ?

Yes, bring up the the CAS RCALL (boxed) page, put the * on the entry you want to delete. On the upper left display (Option Display Unit) press the ERAS(e) button.

Might have to press RCALL button twice for the ODU options to appear.

Be aware that the aircraft will not reload any leftover F10 marks, new ones have to be made before the pressing RALT+RSHIFT+8

@jonsky7 Awesome thanks for the "heads up".