An idea of VR cockpit

Hi all,

Played in VR for a while. I've got a basic setup with HOTAS, Paddle and the VR headset of course.

As many VR simmers, the poor/unreal/lack of hand interaction with cockpit instrument is always bothering me.

While I'm thinking of buying a Cougar MFD but still worrying about mistakenly pushing one button for another due to unable to see either them or my hands in VR, I was wondering:

1. is there a way to accurately project my hands in VR environment?

2. is there a way to accurately align the physical MFD as those in game? (F/A-18C for example as I mostly fly)

If both are achievable, it could become the ultimate solution to create a real "Mixed Reality" VR cockpit, as now you can see your hands in VR, you can see your finger moving towards MFD button (or any other button/switch/nob), and while your VR finger is touching the VR button, your hand will actually touch the physical button too. What you see is now aligned with what you feel! Given the increasingly available electronic devices (button/switch/nob, and control board) and 3D printing, creating a high fidelity cockpit for VR is probably more practical than ever.

Now, for projecting hands/fingers in game, I got the impression through searching on the internet that the Leap Motion might be up for the work. But can anyone confirm its actual performance and limitation? Will it truly fit for this purpose? Its accuracy and coverage are my main concerns.

For alignment of physical MFD/button/switch/nob with those in VR, the only practical way that I know is probably using in game "Reset View" function while also making sure the MFD/button/switch/nob are exactly matching their in game position/size... have anyone tried this, or is there any better way to achieve the same?

btw, I'm using WMR / Samsung O+, was amazed by its inside-out tracking capability especially that I can't feel any drift over lengthy use. This is partially the reason why I come up with this idea.

Any thoughts?

* Please forgive my noobness if this has been discussed before...

For the Rift , i extend a finger while using the touch controller to sync . Do WMR controllers have the capacitive sensing function ?

So- there are a lot of considerations . It is possible to do as you say ( I synched my throttle location using the touch controller as i said , and will sync my stick position if my Foxx mounts ever show up ) but the road will be long and convoluted . There are various methods of putting VR hands in the cockpit , including Leap motion , Captogloves and the relatively new VR Gloves . As controllers , the first two are not quite ready for prime time , according to what i have read . But purely as hand trackers , surely they would be somewhat better . Tracking issues may still arise for switches behind the stick or throttle depending on the system . Also , can you switch off the control function (and haptics if so equipped) and is the system compatible with the DCS moving arm ? No disembodied hands floating around the cockpit for me , and that goes double for disembodied ghostly blue hands !

There is also the minor matter of building a cockpit to exact scale . Most pitbuilders deviate somewhat from perfect scale for any number of reasons . It may even be very difficult to obtain exact-scale plans for the aircraft you wish to replicate . The problem is easily seen by the use of Cougar MFDs for example , which are undersized relative to most IRL aircraft . While it may save some time building a VR cockpit as opposed to a projection simpit (no backlighting , lettering or displays) , one would still have to invest a lot of time and money building , wiring and incorporating all those panels and controls . I should mention that it would also be possible to build "dummy" haptics-only panels , and use the controller functions of your hand-tracking solution , but again , most do not seem quite fully capable yet .

In short , it is an interesting possibility , one that i have given a lot of thought to , but one that would take hundreds of hours to effect ,and that for ONE aircraft . Too many hours and too much expense for this old man :)

Maybe you can buy two MFDs, try to put them in the right position and then learn to find them with muscle memory, as you do with your hotas and mouse. No need to track your hands in the virtual space or to use touch controllers. I do not have MFDs but could be something to try

Yeah , i like the idea of a UFC and 2 MFDs as a compromise . Brun's looks really good , for example , and Blue73's renders are awesome as well . I don't use touch controllers in-game as well .

As other said , IMO, having your hands in game is really not necessary. Within days you will have muscle memory of were the switches are and that even if not exactly to scale

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While I'm thinking of buying a Cougar MFD but still worrying about mistakenly pushing one button for another due to unable to see either them or my hands in VR, I was wondering:

1. is there a way to accurately project my hands in VR environment?

2. is there a way to accurately align the physical MFD as those in game? (F/A-18C for example as I mostly fly)

I use VR 100% of time and I use MFD's as well. I've placed them much lower than in a real cockpit, just above my knees so that I can see them perfectly though a nose gap ;)

You should look at point control. In the main I/O forum. Bascially finger/mouse tracking. No need for a virtual pit.

Hi ravenzino, regarding the Leap:

I use a leap motion VR kit. There’s no native support for leap motion in DCS, you have to emulate a controller - I am using a driver for SteamVR but it requires some config file diving and command line work to get it set up the first time.

Coverage with the VR kit is more than adequate for the 1st gen headsets (i’m using a Lenovo Explorer).

It is very immersive to be able to reach out and hit a button on the UFC, but in some modules the switches will rapidly switch back and forth making it difficult to get the right position in a hurry. I have left-click and right-click bound to buttons on my HOTAS, and usually activate a switch in these modules by pointing at it (literally pointing at the switch with one hand) and using the buttons. I also still use a mouse (trackball actually) for interacting with dials.

For your use case I’d be concerned with activating a control in the cockpit while trying to interact with a physical control. I find I need to be careful where I put my throttle to avoid hitting the fuel cutoff in the Spitfire, for example.

do yourself a favor, buy the mfds and pour a small silicone adhesive pad on each center pushbutton of each row and column. you could find them at any hardware store.

in no time you will develop muscle memory, and as a bonus, you can bind the rocker switches to other commands such refuel probe, master arm, hook, radar altimeter, ag/AA modes...

I'm just setting up my VR sim pit and rather then a modelled pit I've gone the generic and more to the point ergonomic route. If you know where the buttons and controls are it doesn't really break the immersion as I don't look at the controls as such unless I'm using mouse but that still works. :)

It should be remembered that military pilots are trained to locate every switch blindfolded...

For me, VR does not eliminate my preference for real switches and levers. Technically, you don't need a HOTAS in VR. Just use your virtual hands to grab your virtual controls which is already possible in a few flight sims. But it isn't fun for me. I don't just want to visually feel like I am in a 3d cockpit, I want to reach out and touch the real controls.

But, I would really like it if my hands were tracked so that the virtual pilot's arms/hands moved in sync with mine. When I have my hands on the stick and throttle, my feet on the rudder pedals, and my head position synced correctly with the virtual pilot, it looks and feels right. The virtual pointer that allows you to operate controls with your finger is an accessory I want because I can't model every cockpit. But I would only use it for controls I can't easily mimic with real world levers, buttons, and switches.

It should be remembered that military pilots are trained to locate every switch blindfolded...

yeah that´s why most switches and levers are slightly different, whereas most of our HOTAS and buttonboxes and such are not.

It is quite easy to customise our switches.

Some use a dab of hot glue on critical switches.

On pots of my button box, I have 3D printed knobs, with different shapes and textures

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Thanks Svsmokey for your very insightful reply!

...... There are various methods of putting VR hands in the cockpit , including Leap motion , Captogloves and the relatively new VR Gloves . ......

Curiously, what new VR Gloves?

...... Also , can you switch off the control function (and haptics if so equipped) and is the system compatible with the DCS moving arm ? ...... I should mention that it would also be possible to build "dummy" haptics-only panels , and use the controller functions of your hand-tracking solution , but again , most do not seem quite fully capable yet . ......

Not sure if it is doable, but I was actually thinking of turn off the VR controller function of the hand-tracking solution off. So the hand-tracking in VR is to provide a visual reference only. Actual control signal is still generated via those physical buttons/switches.

...... It may even be very difficult to obtain exact-scale plans for the aircraft you wish to replicate . The problem is easily seen by the use of Cougar MFDs for example , which are undersized relative to most IRL aircraft . While it may save some time building a VR cockpit as opposed to a projection simpit (no backlighting , lettering or displays) , one would still have to invest a lot of time and money building , wiring and incorporating all those panels and controls . ......

Totally got that. To tackle, I was thinking of some modular approach (like Lego) as inspired by my previous attempt of using aluminum profile to construct my HOTAS mount/stand. Anyway, this is more of a cost issue rather than a deal breaker. I almost fly Hornet only...... :D

Maybe you can buy two MFDs, try to put them in the right position and then learn to find them with muscle memory, as you do with your hotas and mouse. No need to track your hands in the virtual space or to use touch controllers. I do not have MFDs but could be something to try

That's what I'm about to do before this idea hits me......:)

As other said , IMO, having your hands in game is really not necessary. Within days you will have muscle memory of were the switches are and that even if not exactly to scale

 

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Guess I'm a bit old for that, still have to hand-exploring a while in finding some switches on my Warthog Throttle panel...... let alone the MFD buttons......

I probably will have to give it a try if there's no other option, though to avoid that is the very reason of this discussion...

I use VR 100% of time and I use MFD's as well. I've placed them much lower than in a real cockpit, just above my knees so that I can see them perfectly though a nose gap ;)

 

 

Smart!:thumbup:

My Samsung O+ doesn't give me that luxury... or maybe my nose is a bit too small......

Cool pit!

You should look at point control. In the main I/O forum. Bascially finger/mouse tracking. No need for a virtual pit.

I looked at them a while ago, but not quite convinced. It's a cool solution, just not as good as my idea, though my idea might very likely ends up as an illusion... :D

Hi ravenzino, regarding the Leap:

 

I use a leap motion VR kit. There’s no native support for leap motion in DCS, you have to emulate a controller - I am using a driver for SteamVR but it requires some config file diving and command line work to get it set up the first time.

 

Coverage with the VR kit is more than adequate for the 1st gen headsets (i’m using a Lenovo Explorer).

 

It is very immersive to be able to reach out and hit a button on the UFC, but in some modules the switches will rapidly switch back and forth making it difficult to get the right position in a hurry. I have left-click and right-click bound to buttons on my HOTAS, and usually activate a switch in these modules by pointing at it (literally pointing at the switch with one hand) and using the buttons. I also still use a mouse (trackball actually) for interacting with dials.

 

For your use case I’d be concerned with activating a control in the cockpit while trying to interact with a physical control. I find I need to be careful where I put my throttle to avoid hitting the fuel cutoff in the Spitfire, for example.

Thanks for the details regarding using LM. For the double activation problem, I was actually thinking of disabling LM's control function and use the physical controls only, not sure if it is doable though...

It should be remembered that military pilots are trained to locate every switch blindfolded...

The switches on the side panels, I get that. But not those buttons on the MFDs right?

Thanks Svsmokey for your very insightful reply!

 

 

Curiously, what new VR Gloves?

 

 

Not sure if it is doable, but I was actually thinking of turn off the VR controller function of the hand-tracking solution off. So the hand-tracking in VR is to provide a visual reference only. Actual control signal is still generated via those physical buttons/switches.

 

 

Totally got that. To tackle, I was thinking of some modular approach (like Lego) as inspired by my previous attempt of using aluminum profile to construct my HOTAS mount/stand. Anyway, this is more of a cost issue rather than a deal breaker. I almost fly Hornet only...... :D

Regarding VR Gloves...

https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=205378