Wrong heading and RSBN problems

Hi,

I'm in 2.5, doing the campaign of the Mig21. In the first mission, I didn't have any problem. But now, in mission 2, I have some navigations glitches (at least that is what I assume).

First, I use autostart, just because I was getting a bit tired of starting the aircraft, since I suck and need to retry every mission at least 5 times! :)

That being said, it took a good 15 minutes of flight before finally I was catching the Kutaisi RSBN (Channel 13). The problem is, I took off from Runway 8 of Kutaisi, and flew almost directly straight (heading of 62, as required by the mission). So I thought I'd adjust the HSI to fly on the 62 radial.

So, since I have already been flying for a good 15 minutes, I should already be directly on radial 62 right? Well that is the problem... To be aligned with a radial, I need to rotate it to 120 ish.

EDIT: I still don't know what the issue is... but though the RSBN for Kutaisi should be 13 (as per the kneeboard?), it seems I'm getting closer to it as I fly away from it... :( So... is it the wrong RSBN number that the kneeboard provides?

The problem is, I took off from Runway 8 of Kutaisi, and flew almost directly straight (heading of 62, as required by the mission). So I thought I'd adjust the HSI to fly on the 62 radial.

If you want to fly an outgoing radial from a RSBN Station to an waypoint, use the tail of the needle or the opposite course +(180°) in this case 242° countercourse. The RSBN needle point to the beacon and you fly away from it. This mission is an night mission and not the best case to study the RSBN System. But there is a nice "Round the Kaukasus" Mission in the Missions for the Mig-21. Good to learn to navigate...

If you want to fly an outgoing radial from a RSBN Station to an waypoint, use the tail of the needle or the opposite course +(180°) in this case 242° countercourse. The RSBN needle point to the beacon and you fly away from it. This mission is an night mission and not the best case to study the RSBN System. But there is a nice "Round the Kaukasus" Mission in the Missions for the Mig-21. Good to learn to navigate...

Are you saying this is the "normal" way of flying away from a beacon? I mean... What I am doing versus what you are doing should yield the same result, isn't it?

And, if your way is indeed the "by the book" way I'm surprised... It's a bit counter-intuitive.

Anyhow, I think that it still doesn't quite answer the question sadly, as it doesn't explain why I was getting "closer" to the beacon, since the distance gauge (upper right of the cockpit) was decreasing and not increasing.

It stayed at 000 for some time, as if I wasn't catching any signal. And then it finally started at 144, and decreasing, even though I should have been getting away from the beacon.

So ya... doesn't make any sense, no matter how I was setting my HSI.

I'm not sure if the autostart aligns the NPP using the NPP Adjust button. Did you check your heading on the runway prior to takeoff?

You should have the RSBN of the airfield while sitting on the airfield, the number could be wrong. I'm at work and unable to verify the Kutaisi code.

RSBN Channel 13 is correct for Kutaisi,

there are two needles, a fat and a thin, the thin with the O on the tail.

The fat needle point with the tip to the RSBN Station, if RSBN is running, and all switches are correct and you are in range. ARK/RSBN Switch?

Now you use the thin needle to navigate and if you dial in 62° with the tip and fly to the northeast the thin needle is with the tip on the topside of the NPP, and the Tail with the O is on the tip of the fat needle near the bottomside of NPP when you are on the radial. If you dial in the counter course then both tips are on the same spot. The best way to learn is a flight with start in Kutaisi heading north, then west and via Senaki, Poti, Kobuleti return to base and landing on RW8. Don´t forget the magnetic north problem :-) If that working fine with daylight conditions, try the outgoing radial´s and fly from Kutaisi to what ever with the Kutaisi RSBN in the background of your plane, after this it is time to try it under IFR conditions. Happy flights :joystick:

I'm not sure if the autostart aligns the NPP using the NPP Adjust button. Did you check your heading on the runway prior to takeoff?

 

You should have the RSBN of the airfield while sitting on the airfield, the number could be wrong. I'm at work and unable to verify the Kutaisi code.

I think you are right about NPP not being adjusted with autostart. At least, in my last flight, allthough I prepared my flight using the Mission Planner to find my correct headings, I was always off by a 10 degree during the flight. That is: if in mission planner I was supposed to turn to a heading of 145, it had to be 135 (approx) during the mission itself... So I assume the NPP adjustment had not been done by autostart.

But still, this was just an error of 10 degrees... not a completely abnormal unexpected behavior....

RSBN Channel 13 is correct for Kutaisi,

there are two needles, a fat and a thin, the thin with the O on the tail.

 

The fat needle point with the tip to the RSBN Station, if RSBN is running, and all switches are correct and you are in range. ARK/RSBN Switch?

 

Now you use the thin needle to navigate and if you dial in 62° with the tip and fly to the northeast the thin needle is with the tip on the topside of the NPP, and the Tail with the O is on the tip of the fat needle near the bottomside of NPP when you are on the radial. If you dial in the counter course then both tips are on the same spot. The best way to learn is a flight with start in Kutaisi heading north, then west and via Senaki, Poti, Kobuleti return to base and landing on RW8. Don´t forget the magnetic north problem :-) If that working fine with daylight conditions, try the outgoing radial´s and fly from Kutaisi to what ever with the Kutaisi RSBN in the background of your plane, after this it is time to try it under IFR conditions. Happy flights :joystick:

Thanks for your input. Yes, I made sure the RSBN/ARC switch was in the right position.

Also, unless I've always been wrong, I do believe I understand radial interception, etc. Just to be sure, I guess I can tell you how I understand it briefly:

1- The needle with the "O" on it indicates the direction of the beacon itself. The "O" tip of that needle is away from the beacon, the other side it towards the beacon.

2- The other needle is the one I adjust to intercept a certain radial. If, for example, I am perfectly at 000 deg from a beacon, say 20 nm from it. If I align my HSI needle for a course of, say, 90 degrees. I will see that I am left of said radial and, if I turn to heading 180, I will be flying directly towards the beacon itself, but flying perpendicular to the radial I want. When I fly above the beacon (20 nm later), then I will intercept the 90 deg radial I set my course on. I could then turn left to a heading of 90 deg and follow that radial, away from the beacon.

Would you say my understanding is correct?

Cause, I mean I flew mission 3 of the campaign like that and everything was OK. Mission 1 was also OK. It's mission 2 where nothing was working.

I have found another post on the Mig21 where people seem to complaint about beacon interference in the campaign... I'll try to find it again and link it.

Troubleshooting

1. Is heading displayed equal to actual heading. (F2 or F10)?

2. Is bearing and distance to station displayed the same as actual (F10)?

3. Are azimuth and distance RSBN green lights shining?

What is the exact name of the mission file? MiG21_C_2U.miz? I tried this and it worked OK for me.

Make sure you disregard the bank steering bar on the KPP during RSBN normal navigation. It does not provide correct guidance (they should form an immobile plus). Instead use the * *|* O * * * scale at the top of the KPP for lateral deviation.

Hi Sylosis,

You are perfectly right, with your point 1. I was on work and switched the needles, the thin with the O is the RSBN Beacon Needle and point to the station.

Your 2nd point is right too. This procedere is correct. You can fly every south course to intercept the radial of 90, in your example maybe a course to 120 or 230. The question is only is your next course to east or west, ingoing or outgoing from the beacon.

The misreading from some degrees is the magnetic malfunction between magnetic north and geogr. north. It is 6 or 7 in the caucasus.

There is no magnetic mistake in the MiG-21 module. It's not built with the concept of magnetic compass at all unlike L-39.

Troubleshooting

1. Is heading displayed equal to actual heading. (F2 or F10)?

2. Is bearing and distance to station displayed the same as actual (F10)?

3. Are azimuth and distance RSBN green lights shining?

 

What is the exact name of the mission file? MiG21_C_2U.miz? I tried this and it worked OK for me.

 

Make sure you disregard the bank steering bar on the KPP during RSBN normal navigation. It does not provide correct guidance (they should form an immobile plus). Instead use the * *|* O * * * scale at the top of the KPP for lateral deviation.

Thanks for your question

1- I think it wasn't, I would have to re-test. Because in mission 3 I am 95% sure it wasn't the same heading between my HSI heading versus the heading shown with F2. But, I think this was a separate issue, caused by using autostart. Also ,dumb question but how do you use the ruler in F10 during a mission?

2- This was incorrect. The range was obviously wrong, and as I mentioned, was decreasing, even though I was getting away from the beacon, as seen on the F10 map.

3- Yes they were

Not sure... as a matter of fact, there seem to be multiple missions in the campaign folder with a number "2"... but the suffix changes. I'd have to check, though I can't do it here.

Ya I noticed that and was already ignoring the bank steering bar, as you propose. I was only looking at the top ruler with a circle, again as you mention.

Though I mostly fly using the HSI. Personal preference I guess...