ED Team Olgerd Posted October 2, 2010 ED Team Share Posted October 2, 2010 That's too bad. No one has responded to any of my posts on the matter, but as I've said several times; In the US, neither the airplanes, the pilots, the flight planners, the mission planning software, nor any of the manuals or documentation use the metric system. IP's, VRP's, OAP's, flight plan distances, etc., are predicated on Feet or Nautical Miles. Aircraft Gross Weight, structural limitations, fuel loads, fuel burns, and fuel flows are predicated on Pounds and Pounds-per-Hour. Acceleration Check Speed, Takeoff Speed, Approach Speed, and Airspeed Limitations are predicated on knots. It will be hard to realistically plan things if users are forced to use a system of measure that is not realistic for what's being simulated. What is a problem to use 'imperial units' option in ME? In the aircraft everything is in imperial units. However such things like yardstick on TGP can be switched between U.S. and metric options. The reason of it is obvious - ground units may use metric system for distances. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] К чему стадам дары свободы? Их должно резать или стричь. Наследство их из рода в роды Ярмо с гремушками да бич. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueRidgeDx Posted October 2, 2010 Share Posted October 2, 2010 What is a problem to use 'imperial units' option in ME? In the aircraft everything is in imperial units. However such things like yardstick on TGP can be switched between U.S. and metric options. The reason of it is obvious - ground units may use metric system for distances. You're right, referencing meters/klicks inflight when talking to a JTAC or ground unit is normal and expected. But someone asked: "What units are used for weight when loading the aircraft, kg or pounds?" And the reply was: "Almost certainly going to be KG still..." Does the ME have such an option? I've asked several times, but no one answered. If it does, then fantastic! "They've got us surrounded again - those poor bastards!" - Lt. Col. Creighton Abrams Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amalahama Posted October 2, 2010 Share Posted October 2, 2010 We are constantly working on weapons improvements. Paveway II (gbu-10/-12) will get new flight model with bang-bang control type. Other weapons are still in question. Excellent, it sounds fantastic Olgerd. I hope at least CBU's get a revamp as well, I suspect these weapons will be very important in game. Regards! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sobek Posted October 2, 2010 Share Posted October 2, 2010 Although the option to use proper units of measure would be nice, don't see it happpening mind. Opinions vary on the definition of proper units. :) Good, fast, cheap. Choose any two. Come let's eat grandpa! Use punctuation, save lives! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laud Posted October 2, 2010 Share Posted October 2, 2010 And finally it's not the hardest task to calculate KG to pounds... Same for meters-miles, knots-km/h etc. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Asus ROG STRIX Z390-F Gaming, Intel Core i7 9700k , 32gb Corsair DDR4-3200 Asus RTX 2070 super, Samsung 970 EVO Plus M2, Win10 64bit, Acer XZ321QU (WQHD) TM HOTAS Warthog, SAITEK Rudder Pedals, TIR 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ED Team Olgerd Posted October 2, 2010 ED Team Share Posted October 2, 2010 You're right, referencing meters/klicks inflight when talking to a JTAC or ground unit is normal and expected. But someone asked: "What units are used for weight when loading the aircraft, kg or pounds?" And the reply was: "Almost certainly going to be KG still..." Does the ME have such an option? I've asked several times, but no one answered. If it does, then fantastic! Sorry I misunderstood you question. Weight is always in kilograms. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] К чему стадам дары свободы? Их должно резать или стричь. Наследство их из рода в роды Ярмо с гремушками да бич. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueRidgeDx Posted October 2, 2010 Share Posted October 2, 2010 And finally it's not the hardest task to calculate KG to pounds... Same for meters-miles, knots-km/h etc. Obviously this is a losing battle - so after this - I'll stop beating the dead horse. Whether it's difficult or not isn't the question. The point is: we don't use metric in the US, and it's not realistic to be forced to use it. Pilot's don't use CWDS to plan their weapon deliveries using metric; they don't use PFPS to calculate the flight plan in metric; and they certainly don't convert from one set of units to another...that situation just BEGS for human error. I bet you'd be singing a different tune if the ME forced you to use Imperial units to the exclusion of all others. "They've got us surrounded again - those poor bastards!" - Lt. Col. Creighton Abrams Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueRidgeDx Posted October 2, 2010 Share Posted October 2, 2010 Sorry I misunderstood you question. Weight is always in kilograms. That's ok. Thanks for the concise answer. "They've got us surrounded again - those poor bastards!" - Lt. Col. Creighton Abrams Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laud Posted October 3, 2010 Share Posted October 3, 2010 @BlueRidgeDx: As Olgerd said, you can choose whether you use metric or imperial system in-game. And if weights remain metric we have a very small problem, don't you think? Functionality of the AC and the ME and capabilities of the AI are way more important than the units. That's all I'm about. I don't say it would be realistic to have everything in metric units, but at least it would be problem I could easily fix myself, other than missing functionalities of the above mentioned parts of the game. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Asus ROG STRIX Z390-F Gaming, Intel Core i7 9700k , 32gb Corsair DDR4-3200 Asus RTX 2070 super, Samsung 970 EVO Plus M2, Win10 64bit, Acer XZ321QU (WQHD) TM HOTAS Warthog, SAITEK Rudder Pedals, TIR 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yellonet Posted October 3, 2010 Share Posted October 3, 2010 @BlueRidgeDx To me, you come off as the type of gamer (if I may call you a gamer) that wants the missions as realistic as possible from start to finish, including planning. You like missions that take several hours to fly and take as much or more pleasure in knowing that you flew exactly according to the plan as you do destroying the targets. I understand why the units matter to you as it makes the planning of the mission different than how it would be in reality. But perhaps you could, print a paper map to take measurements on, so that then you would only have to make one calculation outside the normal ones - converting the starting weight of the AC to pounds. Doable? i7-2600k@4GHz, 8GB, R9 280X 3GB, SSD, HOTAS WH, Pro Flight Combat Pedals, TIR5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hassata Posted October 3, 2010 Share Posted October 3, 2010 I dunno. Sounds likes work. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sweinhart3 Posted October 3, 2010 Share Posted October 3, 2010 I just hope I dont have to fly with aircraft using metric on its guages. Like many other people, I have an idea of how fast 10knots is but no idea what 10km is. Sure there are conversion charts but I dont want to have to do real time conversion in my head when Im trying to land. Intel i7 990X, 6GB DDR3, Nvidia GTX 470 x2 SLI, Win 7 x64 http://picasaweb.google.com/sweinhart Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cctoide Posted October 3, 2010 Share Posted October 3, 2010 I believe what people are saying is that all of the simulation runs on metric internally (and this shows up externally in places like the ME), not that the planes are going to use metric. It would be rather silly for a high-fidelity study sim to have metric gauges when the airframe it's modeling doesn't. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ED Team Olgerd Posted October 3, 2010 ED Team Share Posted October 3, 2010 I just hope I dont have to fly with aircraft using metric on its guages. Like many other people, I have an idea of how fast 10knots is but no idea what 10km is. Sure there are conversion charts but I dont want to have to do real time conversion in my head when Im trying to land. Russian people think the same about F-15 and A-10. ;) [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] К чему стадам дары свободы? Их должно резать или стричь. Наследство их из рода в роды Ярмо с гремушками да бич. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GGTharos Posted October 3, 2010 Share Posted October 3, 2010 10km is about half of what 10nm is. Pretty easy, huh? And why are you landing by speed instead of AoA anyway? ;) I just hope I dont have to fly with aircraft using metric on its guages. Like many other people, I have an idea of how fast 10knots is but no idea what 10km is. Sure there are conversion charts but I dont want to have to do real time conversion in my head when Im trying to land. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Reminder: SAM = Speed Bump :D I used to play flight sims like you, but then I took a slammer to the knee - Yoda Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
159th_Viper Posted October 3, 2010 Share Posted October 3, 2010 And why are you landing by speed instead of AoA anyway? Aye - when putting her down weighing 58 000 pounds or thereabouts, landing speed is pretty relative. Novice or Veteran looking for an alternative MP career? Click me to commence your Journey of Pillage and Plunder! [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] '....And when I get to Heaven, to St Peter I will tell.... One more Soldier reporting Sir, I've served my time in Hell......' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Feuerfalke Posted October 3, 2010 Share Posted October 3, 2010 Russian people think the same about F-15 and A-10. ;) + Most of Europe ;) Gigabyte GA-Z87-UD3H | i7 4470k @ 4.5 GHz | 16 GB DDR3 @ 2.133 Ghz | GTX 1080 | LG 55" @ 4K | Cougar 1000 W | Creative X-Fi Ti | TIR5 | CH HOTAS (with BU0836X-12 Bit) + Crosswind Pedals | Win10 64 HP | X-Keys Pro 20 & Pro 54 | 2x TM MFD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nemises Posted October 3, 2010 Share Posted October 3, 2010 I just hope I dont have to fly with aircraft using metric on its guages. Like many other people, I have an idea of how fast 10knots is but no idea what 10km is. Sure there are conversion charts but I dont want to have to do real time conversion in my head when Im trying to land. There's no risk of this mate, the gauges / in cockpit indications will all be in crazy (I mean Imperial sorry)... There night be an option to change to Metric (there was in BlackShark) the ED guys are super anal about accuracy to the airframe (irrespective of what the underlying calculations are done in). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueRidgeDx Posted October 3, 2010 Share Posted October 3, 2010 10km is about half of what 10nm is. Pretty easy, huh? And why are you landing by speed instead of AoA anyway? ;) I have nothing but respect for developers that create products like the DCS series, and I'm keenly aware of the kind of decisions that have to be made with respect to feature inclusion. I'm also very aware that sometimes seemingly "easy" features are, in fact, very difficult to implement. So I'm not approaching this like a spoiled gamer. But what I'm hearing is an awful lot of rationalization about why it doesn't really need to be done correctly. Afterall, metric is "superior", and you can just eyeball the difference between a mile and a kilometer, right? Come on... Again, you'd be singing a different song if you had to constantly convert from imperial to your beloved metric when using the ME. The obvious and smart solution is to provide the ability to use either. If the cockpit instruments can display imperial even though the engine uses metric, why can't the ME? I've spelled out very clearly all of the aspects of preflight planning that are affected by not having the correct units available in the ME, but instead of addressing those, people want to focus on the red herring issue of flying AoA on approach. Ok, but you're only half right: The fact of the matter is, you also use a minimum computed airspeed for the base turn, and final approach. Furthermore, if you're landing on a short field you would fly a particular airspeed for a minimum run landing. So yes, airspeed is important for landing. Olgerd already provided a definitive answer, and I thanked him for doing so. I'm going to buy Warthog regardless of the units issue, and I'm going to enjoy the hell out of it. "They've got us surrounded again - those poor bastards!" - Lt. Col. Creighton Abrams Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GGTharos Posted October 3, 2010 Share Posted October 3, 2010 There's really not much rationalization of anything; the aircraft represented fly using the units that the real aircraft do - you'll get metric on most russian planes, and imperial on the US ones. As for the mission planner, what can I say? It is currently an inconvenience, but it isn't the most horrible problem around either. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Reminder: SAM = Speed Bump :D I used to play flight sims like you, but then I took a slammer to the knee - Yoda Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theGozr Posted October 3, 2010 Share Posted October 3, 2010 Quote: Originally Posted by sweinhart3 I just hope I dont have to fly with aircraft using metric on its guages. Like many other people, I have an idea of how fast 10knots is but no idea what 10km is. Sure there are conversion charts but I dont want to have to do real time conversion in my head when Im trying to land. Russian people think the same about F-15 and A-10. - Well not only the Russian people.. a lot more ;) Fly it like you stole it.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amalahama Posted October 3, 2010 Share Posted October 3, 2010 Well kids, I think all we've had enough with the metrics problem; please put it down and carry on with the next question... Regards!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pfadfinder Posted October 3, 2010 Share Posted October 3, 2010 Well not only the Russian people.. a lot more ;) Hmm jeah, the whole planet infact :) Lt. Jake Grafton: "Fighter pukes make movies. Bomber pilots make... HISTORY!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sweinhart3 Posted October 3, 2010 Share Posted October 3, 2010 10km is about half of what 10nm is. Pretty easy, huh? And why are you landing by speed instead of AoA anyway? ;) Because I never learned how. I learned to watch airspeed and keep a glide slope. Intel i7 990X, 6GB DDR3, Nvidia GTX 470 x2 SLI, Win 7 x64 http://picasaweb.google.com/sweinhart Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ED Team Olgerd Posted October 3, 2010 ED Team Share Posted October 3, 2010 10km is about half of what 10nm is. Pretty easy, huh? And why are you landing by speed instead of AoA anyway? ;) If he is a real pilot, he could fly aircrafts with no AoA system installed. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] К чему стадам дары свободы? Их должно резать или стричь. Наследство их из рода в роды Ярмо с гремушками да бич. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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