GVO Posted October 26, 2018 Share Posted October 26, 2018 I’ve been looking for some time now to upgrade my Saitek X-52 and have been checking different products. Thrustmaster Warthog have been on the market for quite a while and seems like a solid choice. But I have been checking out Virpil and VKB for what seems like a year now, but not sure if they are a serious business since they never have any of their highend products in stock. Quite strange tbh. Should I go for the safe solution and get the Warthog HOTAS or wait to see if, by any chance, Virpil and VKB get any products? Are they in fact better? I’ve been looking at the Mongoose T-50 throttle and VKB Gunfighter mk.II. Thanks for your time and have a great weekend Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dburne Posted October 26, 2018 Share Posted October 26, 2018 (edited) The VKB Gunfighter with MCG Pro grip is an excellent choice, especially the Pro that comes with the extension. But would need to be center mounted in either like a wheel stand pro or one of the Monster Tech table mounts. I use the Monster Tech and love it. The non pro is for setting on desk. Both VKB and Virpil are boutique stick mfgs, and as such they do not have a build up of inventory to sell from. So it can be a bit of a wait, quite the wait at times. The Warthog should be a nice upgrade over the Saitek also I would think, I used a Warthog for several years. Also Warthog has throttle, VKB currently does not, Virpil recently added one but purchased separately and not cheap. The big difference is VKB/Virpil have metal internals, Warthog has plastic internals. But Warthog has metal grip, and VKB/Virpil plastic grip. I have the VKB Gunfighter Pro with MCG Pro grip mounted on Monster Tech extended mount, and Warthog throttle. I also have the Virpil T-50 Mongoos, however that model has been discontinued. They have the WarBRD now, which is more of a desk top stick. Can be mounted with an extension no longer than 50mm. Edited October 26, 2018 by dburne Don B EVGA Z390 Dark MB | i9 9900k CPU @ 5.1 GHz | Gigabyte 4090 OC | 64 GB Corsair Vengeance 3200 MHz CL16 | Corsair H150i Pro Cooler |Virpil CM3 Stick w/ Alpha Prime Grip 200mm ext| Virpil CM3 Throttle | VPC Rotor TCS Base w/ Alpha-L Grip| Point Control V2|Varjo Aero| Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob_Bushman Posted October 26, 2018 Share Posted October 26, 2018 Virpil and VKB are indeed a very serious business. Any support request I have filed with regarding potential purchases or support after a purchase has been responded to with competence and courtesy. Not some first line highschooler with a sheet of questions. They are just small, make high quality products at high tolerances and that takes a bit of time. And developing products like these take time. Take the virpil throttle, it wasn't fully out of development until August or late September. And people have been ordering them since last year almost. Naturally they have had a lot of orders to fill. Personally I have a barely three moth warthog throttle and I received my Virpil a week or so ago after a three month wait. It was twice as expensive as the hog throttle in the end. And. It was worth it. Worth the price. Worth the wait. That's my nickel at least. It's even more precise than the warthog throttle even though it has a slightly shorter throw. The buttons are easier to access, the hogs handles almost oclude half of them depending on its position. And you got more of them. Its as if you got a good button box with a set of analog knobs and encoders on top of your throttle and those you will have to either diy or cost you €200+. The joystick is about the same and the opposite of the warthog, ABS plastic on the grip machined dura-aluminum on the inside. Thrustamers is thin metal casing around the grip with plastic gimbals, budget wiring. I normally fly mostly helicopters and with this gimbal I need neither curves or deadzones at all. The motion and registration around center is perfect, no notches, no stiction. And if you desire different centering feel and force, switch the cams and springs and with effort you can get it just right. It took me a few weeks to get there and I dissassembled my gimbal at least three times but the result is as close to perfection I think would be possible. i7 8700k @ 4.7, 32GB 2900Mhz, 1080ti, CV1 Virpil MT-50\Delta, MFG Crosswind, Warthog Throttle, Virptil Mongoost-50 throttle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
norbot Posted October 26, 2018 Share Posted October 26, 2018 (edited) I would recommend the Thrustmaster Warthog as a start. You get a decent stick and a good throttle for your money. The precision of the plastic gimbal in the Warthog stick is quite poor in my opinion, but it's OK to fly with. If you need a higher precision, you can always upgrade your Warthog stick with a VKB or other metal gimbal later, which offer a much better feeling and precision. Special adapters for the Warthog are offered in the webshops of the mentioned manufacturers. If $$$ don't matter, you could also try this: http://realsimulator.com/html/fssb_r3_lighting.html. But this one is a force sensing stick, which is not everybody's taste. Edited October 26, 2018 by norbot A-10A, A-10C, A-10C II, AV-8B, F-5E, F-16C, F/A-18C, F-86F, Yak-52, Nevada, Persian Gulf, Syria, Supercarrier, Combined Arms, FW 190 A-8, FW 190 D-9, Spitfire LF Mk. IX, Normandy + WWII Assets Pack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seb71 Posted October 26, 2018 Share Posted October 26, 2018 The VKB Gunfighter with MCG Pro grip is an excellent choice, especially the Pro that comes with the extension. Slight confusion here. Let me clear this up. VKB makes bases and grips. === The Gunfighter base, when sold with the extension, stronger springs and the small base plate (needed for center mount of the stick), was called "Gunfighter Pro". The exact same base, when sold without those accessories, was called "Gunfighter". As an added complication, after the Gunfighter was already in production, they reversed the connector between the base and the grip. First iteration used the 3-pin connector (now called "3-pin Revision A") with the 3 pins on the base and the 3 contacts in the grip. Current iterations are using the so-called "3-pin Revision B" connector, with the 3 pins in the grip and the 3 contacts in the base. The second iteration is also known (mostly in US) as "Gunfighter Mk. II" (or "Gunfighter Pro Mk. II" if sold with extensions). At least in the EU shop they will no longer sell the Gunfighter Pro, but instead offer the extension accessories as a separate purchase (good decision). === Now about the MCG grips. They have a MCG and a MCG Pro grip. The Pro grip has more features (such as a 4-way hat + push for the thumb, instead of just a button). They also had a third, special MCG version, to be used on a Warthog base. And they are supposed to make 5-pin versions, for older bases. But this is not of interest, if buying a new base+grip (which are 3-pin Rev.B - both the base and the grip). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dburne Posted October 26, 2018 Share Posted October 26, 2018 Ah ok, but they do apparently still offer Gunfighter Pro in NA site. Not currently available at this time, but still listed with pricing. Don B EVGA Z390 Dark MB | i9 9900k CPU @ 5.1 GHz | Gigabyte 4090 OC | 64 GB Corsair Vengeance 3200 MHz CL16 | Corsair H150i Pro Cooler |Virpil CM3 Stick w/ Alpha Prime Grip 200mm ext| Virpil CM3 Throttle | VPC Rotor TCS Base w/ Alpha-L Grip| Point Control V2|Varjo Aero| Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob_Bushman Posted October 26, 2018 Share Posted October 26, 2018 VKB tend to do batches. They should post when to expect stock and you would wait and place an order then. I can't really say why, but I hit the pre-order button for a gunfighter MCG-pro combo this week. Even though I honestly can't find a single flaw with the T-50.. As a general response to this query of getting a HOTAS. I think in the strictest terms. I would be vary of actually recommending anyone get anything much more expensive than the T16000m, it is simply plenty good enough and doesn't break most budgets. And it's a good stick, I find it a bit tough to recommend the Saitek\Logitech (S\L) options since they simply feel a bit outdated these days in terms of precision. CH is about the same but with less QA issues than the S\L offerings, well at least they used to. But their pots are starting to show their age in terms of noise and precision. So in a nuthsell I would say: The t16000m HOTAS is good. Warthog is great. Virpil is great+ VKB is great+(+?), with their top grip\gimbal which I expect is one step above the virpil again. A solution from these would easily cost more than twice that of a warthog HOTAS. So I might consider it a bit insane, I personally find sanity overrated though, but I have always been a bit off. i7 8700k @ 4.7, 32GB 2900Mhz, 1080ti, CV1 Virpil MT-50\Delta, MFG Crosswind, Warthog Throttle, Virptil Mongoost-50 throttle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dburne Posted October 26, 2018 Share Posted October 26, 2018 VKB tend to do batches. They should post when to expect stock and you would wait and place an order then. I can't really say why, but I hit the pre-order button for a gunfighter MCG-pro combo this week. Even though I honestly can't find a single flaw with the T-50.. I can relate, I did the same thing and got both. I do not regret it though, glad I have them. Don B EVGA Z390 Dark MB | i9 9900k CPU @ 5.1 GHz | Gigabyte 4090 OC | 64 GB Corsair Vengeance 3200 MHz CL16 | Corsair H150i Pro Cooler |Virpil CM3 Stick w/ Alpha Prime Grip 200mm ext| Virpil CM3 Throttle | VPC Rotor TCS Base w/ Alpha-L Grip| Point Control V2|Varjo Aero| Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chief Posted October 27, 2018 Share Posted October 27, 2018 VKB tend to do batches. So in a nuthsell I would say: The t16000m HOTAS is good. Warthog is great. Virpil is great+ VKB is great+(+?), with their top grip\gimbal which I expect is one step above the virpil again. Not so sure about that opinion Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob_Bushman Posted October 27, 2018 Share Posted October 27, 2018 Not so sure about that opinion The clutch system sounds intriguing, especially since my main module is the huey and other helicopters. As for the grip: MCG PRO grip (3-pin Rev.B) EN: Swappable grip, right-handed 24 programmable buttons 6 analog axes (2x slew control ministick axes / 2x trimmer ministick axes / 1x folding trigger axis / 1x brake lever axis) Dual-stage trigger (trigger 1) Metal folding trigger (trigger 2) with two position sensor (flipped up/down) User-swappable thumb button on grip (4-way switch + push factory ... The grip might look the same, but it sounds significantly different in a few features and a fair more buttons. I honestly suspect the current virpil mongoose grip was designed to function on the warthog gimbal, and therefore limited in number if buttons and axes. I was entertaining the idea of a twin stick to say setup so should be able find good use for the virpil still. i7 8700k @ 4.7, 32GB 2900Mhz, 1080ti, CV1 Virpil MT-50\Delta, MFG Crosswind, Warthog Throttle, Virptil Mongoost-50 throttle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dburne Posted October 27, 2018 Share Posted October 27, 2018 The clutch system sounds intriguing, especially since my main module is the huey and other helicopters. As for the grip: The grip might look the same, but it sounds significantly different in a few features and a fair more buttons. I honestly suspect the current virpil mongoose grip was designed to function on the warthog gimbal, and therefore limited in number if buttons and axes. I was entertaining the idea of a twin stick to say setup so should be able find good use for the virpil still. Yes the MCG Pro grip is outstanding, I would highly recommend it to anyone. Don B EVGA Z390 Dark MB | i9 9900k CPU @ 5.1 GHz | Gigabyte 4090 OC | 64 GB Corsair Vengeance 3200 MHz CL16 | Corsair H150i Pro Cooler |Virpil CM3 Stick w/ Alpha Prime Grip 200mm ext| Virpil CM3 Throttle | VPC Rotor TCS Base w/ Alpha-L Grip| Point Control V2|Varjo Aero| Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fitness88 Posted November 9, 2018 Share Posted November 9, 2018 (edited) Great info here! I live in the Toronto area and want to be able to at least put hands on and get a physical feel before buying. What I now gather from this read is with the exception of the Warthog which is show cased at a nearby store, I won't be able to with the others mentioned here. I must add the stiction issue with the Warthog joy stick and the post purchase repair that needed to be done was a bit of a turn off. This could only have been realised by touch and feel prior to purchase. I never thought of mix and match with throttle and joystick but I see many are doing just that. As I prefer using the HOTAS mapping software over directly mapping into DCS I thought it may create a mapping conflict using a different throttle and joystick. In Canada the Warthog throttle with stick is now around $650.00 tax in down from $800.00. The Virpil and VKB would easily be $1000.00 for throttle and stick if not more from what you're saying. So none of you actually had a chance to handle in the store prior to purchase...that's showing a lot of faith! Edited November 9, 2018 by fitness88 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
some1 Posted November 9, 2018 Share Posted November 9, 2018 So none of you actually had a chance to handle in the store prior to purchase...that's showing a lot of faith! No different to buying modules on preorders and hoping that one day they will be finished. Hardware: VPForce Rhino, FSSB R3 Ultra, Virpil T-50CM, Hotas Warthog, Winwing F15EX, Slaw Rudder, GVL224 Trio Throttle, Thrustmaster MFDs, Saitek Trim wheel, Trackir 5, Quest Pro Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fitness88 Posted November 9, 2018 Share Posted November 9, 2018 No different to buying modules on preorders and hoping that one day they will be finished. Except the $$ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sokol1_br Posted November 9, 2018 Share Posted November 9, 2018 As I prefer using the HOTAS mapping software over directly mapping into DCS I thought it may create a mapping conflict using a different throttle and joystick. UJR, Joystick Gremlin map any brand of sticks, and can combine various of then in one virtual device if want - like Manager, TARGET. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fitness88 Posted November 10, 2018 Share Posted November 10, 2018 UJR, Joystick Gremlin map any brand of sticks, and can combine various of then in one virtual device if want - like Manager, TARGET. Thanks good to know! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fitness88 Posted November 18, 2018 Share Posted November 18, 2018 UJR, Joystick Gremlin map any brand of sticks, and can combine various of then in one virtual device if want - like Manager, TARGET. TM TARGET does not see Saitek HOTAS, wish it did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob_Bushman Posted November 18, 2018 Share Posted November 18, 2018 I was periodically looking at the virpil website for over a year and a half before buying, as well as probably viewing every YouTube video and user opinion I could scrounge. And then it was a "it's money, you can't take it with you so why Not?" and hit buy at 2:35 AM after three double shots of whisky. i7 8700k @ 4.7, 32GB 2900Mhz, 1080ti, CV1 Virpil MT-50\Delta, MFG Crosswind, Warthog Throttle, Virptil Mongoost-50 throttle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sokol1_br Posted November 18, 2018 Share Posted November 18, 2018 TM TARGET does not see Saitek HOTAS, wish it did. Of course, because TARGET (or Saitek SST, or CH Manager) are restrict to brand. But you have as option Joystick Gremlin, that can be used with any brand and even mixing then, e.g. Saitek X-52 throttle and VPC T50 stick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fitness88 Posted November 19, 2018 Share Posted November 19, 2018 I was periodically looking at the virpil website for over a year and a half before buying, as well as probably viewing every YouTube video and user opinion I could scrounge. And then it was a "it's money, you can't take it with you so why Not?" and hit buy at 2:35 AM after three double shots of whisky. LOL...I hear you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fitness88 Posted November 19, 2018 Share Posted November 19, 2018 (edited) I got my hands on a friends TW for awhile. The increase in control is very apparent with the smoothness of response, no axis curves needed. With the exception for very subtle small movements which have a bit of stiction, the stick moves smoothly. Flying VR I found the throttle array of buttons not helpful as for most functions I use the mouse in-cockpit, I would have preferred a couple of rows of plain programable buttons and toggles. Also I found the stick/spring a bit heavy getting out of centre. All in all a nice experience! Edited November 19, 2018 by fitness88 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeepDrummer Posted November 19, 2018 Share Posted November 19, 2018 I love Target. It takes a bit to learn but it is pretty darn handy. One gets used to where the buttons are and if logically laid out it is perfect. The sticktion issues are real. I count on buying a stick per year. I fly an awful lot being retired and all. A 3 or 4 inch extension solves the spring problem and suits the warbirds for stick travel nicely. An example of why I like Target is what I did today on my Spitfire script. There is no battery switch in the cockpit although I believe there is one elsewhere. I decided to use Target to make my own pseudo switch by chaining the right number of commands together on one hard to get at switch. It takes some learning and some tough debugging to put together a perfect script with no conflicts but check it out. One press of the S3 button while holding the lever in takes care of everything marked IM and switches them off: Win 10 pro 64 bit. Intel i7 4790 4 Ghz running at 4.6. Asus z97 pro wifi main board, 32 gig 2400 ddr3 gold ram, 50 inch 4K UHD and HDR TV for monitor. H80 cpu cooler. 8 other cooling fans in full tower server case. Soundblaster ZX sound card. EVGA 1080 TI FTW3. TM Hotas Wartog. TM T.16000M MFG Crosswinds Pedals. Trackir 5. "Everyone should fly a Spitfire at least once" John S. Blyth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeepDrummer Posted November 19, 2018 Share Posted November 19, 2018 A couple dozen mouse clicks using the GUI can produce that or exactly 907 lines of hand written code like this: <HidCommand1> <EventName>Pitot Heat OFF</EventName> <IsSequence>False</IsSequence> <Layers>1 32</Layers> <Delay>-1</Delay> <Comment> </Comment> <EventsNumber>2</EventsNumber> <StartTrigger>0</StartTrigger> <StopTrigger>0</StopTrigger> <CurveType>0</CurveType> <Lower>0</Lower> <Center>0</Center> <Upper>0</Upper> <Trim>0</Trim> <Curve>0</Curve> <Zoom>0</Zoom> <Rotate>0</Rotate> <AxisIsReversed>False</AxisIsReversed> <AxisIsRelative>False</AxisIsRelative> <XPosition>50</XPosition> <YPosition>50</YPosition> <HidEvent0> <DeviceNumber>-1</DeviceNumber> <Name>L_CTL</Name> <HidType>1</HidType> <EventType>3</EventType> <ActionType>1</ActionType> <ControlIndex>224</ControlIndex> </HidEvent0> <HidEvent1> <DeviceNumber>-1</DeviceNumber> <Name>p</Name> <HidType>1</HidType> <EventType>3</EventType> <ActionType>1</ActionType> <ControlIndex>19</ControlIndex> </HidEvent1> </HidCommand1> <HidCommand2> <EventName>Nav Lights OFF</EventName> <IsSequence>False</IsSequence> <Layers>1 32</Layers> <Delay>-1</Delay> <Comment> </Comment> <EventsNumber>2</EventsNumber> <StartTrigger>0</StartTrigger> <StopTrigger>0</StopTrigger> <CurveType>0</CurveType> <Lower>0</Lower> <Center>0</Center> <Upper>0</Upper> <Trim>0</Trim> <Curve>0</Curve> <Zoom>0</Zoom> <Rotate>0</Rotate> <AxisIsReversed>False</AxisIsReversed> <AxisIsRelative>False</AxisIsRelative> <XPosition>50</XPosition> <YPosition>50</YPosition> <HidEvent0> <DeviceNumber>-1</DeviceNumber> <Name>L_CTL</Name> <HidType>1</HidType> <EventType>3</EventType> <ActionType>1</ActionType> <ControlIndex>224</ControlIndex> </HidEvent0> <HidEvent1> <DeviceNumber>-1</DeviceNumber> <Name>u</Name> <HidType>1</HidType> <EventType>3</EventType> <ActionType>1</ActionType> <ControlIndex>24</ControlIndex> </HidEvent1> </HidCommand2> <HidCommand3> <EventName>L.H. Dash Lamp Decrease</EventName> <IsSequence>False</IsSequence> <Layers>1 32</Layers> <Delay>-1</Delay> <Comment> </Comment> <EventsNumber>2</EventsNumber> <StartTrigger>0</StartTrigger> <StopTrigger>0</StopTrigger> <CurveType>0</CurveType> <Lower>0</Lower> <Center>0</Center> <Upper>0</Upper> <Trim>0</Trim> <Curve>0</Curve> <Zoom>0</Zoom> <Rotate>0</Rotate> <AxisIsReversed>False</AxisIsReversed> <AxisIsRelative>False</AxisIsRelative> <XPosition>50</XPosition> <YPosition>50</YPosition> <HidEvent0> <DeviceNumber>-1</DeviceNumber> <Name>L_CTL</Name> <HidType>1</HidType> <EventType>3</EventType> <ActionType>1</ActionType> <ControlIndex>224</ControlIndex> </HidEvent0> <HidEvent1> <DeviceNumber>-1</DeviceNumber> <Name>n</Name> <HidType>1</HidType> <EventType>3</EventType> <ActionType>1</ActionType> <ControlIndex>17</ControlIndex> </HidEvent1> </HidCommand3> <HidCommand4> <EventName>R.H. Dash Lamp Decrease</EventName> <IsSequence>False</IsSequence> <Layers>1 32</Layers> <Delay>-1</Delay> <Comment> </Comment> <EventsNumber>2</EventsNumber> <StartTrigger>0</StartTrigger> <StopTrigger>0</StopTrigger> <CurveType>0</CurveType> <Lower>0</Lower> <Center>0</Center> <Upper>0</Upper> <Trim>0</Trim> <Curve>0</Curve> <Zoom>0</Zoom> <Rotate>0</Rotate> <AxisIsReversed>False</AxisIsReversed> <AxisIsRelative>False</AxisIsRelative> <XPosition>50</XPosition> <YPosition>50</YPosition> <HidEvent0> <DeviceNumber>-1</DeviceNumber> <Name>R_CTL</Name> <HidType>1</HidType> <EventType>3</EventType> <ActionType>1</ActionType> <ControlIndex>228</ControlIndex> </HidEvent0> <HidEvent1> <DeviceNumber>-1</DeviceNumber> <Name>n</Name> <HidType>1</HidType> <EventType>3</EventType> <ActionType>1</ActionType> <ControlIndex>17</ControlIndex> </HidEvent1> </HidCommand4> <HidCommand5> <EventName>Gun Safety Lever to SAFE</EventName> <IsSequence>False</IsSequence> <Layers>1 32</Layers> <Delay>-1</Delay> <Comment> </Comment> <EventsNumber>2</EventsNumber> <StartTrigger>0</StartTrigger> <StopTrigger>0</StopTrigger> <CurveType>0</CurveType> <Lower>0</Lower> <Center>0</Center> <Upper>0</Upper> <Trim>0</Trim> <Curve>0</Curve> <Zoom>0</Zoom> <Rotate>0</Rotate> <AxisIsReversed>False</AxisIsReversed> <AxisIsRelative>False</AxisIsRelative> <XPosition>50</XPosition> <YPosition>50</YPosition> <HidEvent0> <DeviceNumber>-1</DeviceNumber> <Name>L_SHIFT</Name> <HidType>1</HidType> <EventType>3</EventType> <ActionType>1</ActionType> <ControlIndex>225</ControlIndex> </HidEvent0> <HidEvent1> <DeviceNumber>-1</DeviceNumber> <Name>/</Name> <HidType>1</HidType> <EventType>3</EventType> <ActionType>1</ActionType> <ControlIndex>56</ControlIndex> </HidEvent1> </HidCommand5> <HidCommand6> <EventName>Gun Sight Master OFF</EventName> <IsSequence>False</IsSequence> <Layers>1 32</Layers> <Delay>-1</Delay> <Comment> </Comment> <EventsNumber>3</EventsNumber> <StartTrigger>0</StartTrigger> <StopTrigger>0</StopTrigger> <CurveType>0</CurveType> <Lower>0</Lower> <Center>0</Center> <Upper>0</Upper> <Trim>0</Trim> <Curve>0</Curve> <Zoom>0</Zoom> <Rotate>0</Rotate> <AxisIsReversed>False</AxisIsReversed> <AxisIsRelative>False</AxisIsRelative> <XPosition>50</XPosition> <YPosition>50</YPosition> <HidEvent0> <DeviceNumber>-1</DeviceNumber> <Name>R_SHIFT</Name> <HidType>1</HidType> <EventType>3</EventType> <ActionType>1</ActionType> <ControlIndex>229</ControlIndex> </HidEvent0> <HidEvent1> <DeviceNumber>-1</DeviceNumber> <Name>L_SHIFT</Name> <HidType>1</HidType> <EventType>3</EventType> <ActionType>1</ActionType> <ControlIndex>225</ControlIndex> </HidEvent1> <HidEvent2> <DeviceNumber>-1</DeviceNumber> <Name>8</Name> <HidType>1</HidType> <EventType>3</EventType> <ActionType>1</ActionType> <ControlIndex>37</ControlIndex> </HidEvent2> </HidCommand6> <HidCommand7> <EventName>U/C Indicator OFF</EventName> <IsSequence>False</IsSequence> <Layers>1 32</Layers> <Delay>-1</Delay> <Comment> </Comment> <EventsNumber>3</EventsNumber> <StartTrigger>0</StartTrigger> <StopTrigger>0</StopTrigger> <CurveType>0</CurveType> <Lower>0</Lower> <Center>0</Center> <Upper>0</Upper> <Trim>0</Trim> <Curve>0</Curve> <Zoom>0</Zoom> <Rotate>0</Rotate> <AxisIsReversed>False</AxisIsReversed> <AxisIsRelative>False</AxisIsRelative> <XPosition>50</XPosition> <YPosition>50</YPosition> <HidEvent0> <DeviceNumber>-1</DeviceNumber> <Name>L_SHIFT</Name> <HidType>1</HidType> <EventType>3</EventType> <ActionType>1</ActionType> <ControlIndex>225</ControlIndex> </HidEvent0> <HidEvent1> <DeviceNumber>-1</DeviceNumber> <Name>R_SHIFT</Name> <HidType>1</HidType> <EventType>3</EventType> <ActionType>1</ActionType> <ControlIndex>229</ControlIndex> </HidEvent1> <HidEvent2> <DeviceNumber>-1</DeviceNumber> <Name>\</Name> <HidType>1</HidType> <EventType>3</EventType> <ActionType>1</ActionType> <ControlIndex>49</ControlIndex> </HidEvent2> </HidCommand7> <HidCommand8> <EventName>Radio Power OFF</EventName> <IsSequence>False</IsSequence> <Layers>1 32</Layers> <Delay>-1</Delay> <Comment> </Comment> <EventsNumber>2</EventsNumber> <StartTrigger>0</StartTrigger> <StopTrigger>0</StopTrigger> <CurveType>0</CurveType> <Lower>0</Lower> <Center>0</Center> <Upper>0</Upper> <Trim>0</Trim> <Curve>0</Curve> <Zoom>0</Zoom> <Rotate>0</Rotate> <AxisIsReversed>False</AxisIsReversed> <AxisIsRelative>False</AxisIsRelative> <XPosition>50</XPosition> <YPosition>50</YPosition> <HidEvent0> <DeviceNumber>-1</DeviceNumber> <Name>L_CTL</Name> <HidType>1</HidType> <EventType>3</EventType> <ActionType>1</ActionType> <ControlIndex>224</ControlIndex> </HidEvent0> <HidEvent1> <DeviceNumber>-1</DeviceNumber> <Name>`</Name> <HidType>1</HidType> <EventType>3</EventType> <ActionType>1</ActionType> <ControlIndex>53</ControlIndex> </HidEvent1> </HidCommand8> <HidCommand9> <EventName>LED 1 OFF</EventName> <IsSequence>False</IsSequence> <Layers>1 32</Layers> <Delay>-1</Delay> <Comment> </Comment> <EventsNumber>1</EventsNumber> <StartTrigger>0</StartTrigger> <StopTrigger>0</StopTrigger> <CurveType>0</CurveType> <Lower>0</Lower> <Center>0</Center> <Upper>0</Upper> <Trim>0</Trim> <Curve>0</Curve> <Zoom>0</Zoom> <Rotate>0</Rotate> <AxisIsReversed>False</AxisIsReversed> <AxisIsRelative>False</AxisIsRelative> <XPosition>50</XPosition> <YPosition>50</YPosition> <HidEvent0> <DeviceNumber>1002</DeviceNumber> <Name>LED1(Throttle)</Name> <HidType>3</HidType> <EventType>2</EventType> <ActionType>4</ActionType> <ControlIndex>1</ControlIndex> </HidEvent0> </HidCommand9> <HidCommand10> <EventName>LED 2 OFF</EventName> <IsSequence>False</IsSequence> <Layers>1 32</Layers> <Delay>-1</Delay> <Comment> </Comment> <EventsNumber>1</EventsNumber> <StartTrigger>0</StartTrigger> <StopTrigger>0</StopTrigger> <CurveType>0</CurveType> <Lower>0</Lower> <Center>0</Center> <Upper>0</Upper> <Trim>0</Trim> <Curve>0</Curve> <Zoom>0</Zoom> <Rotate>0</Rotate> <AxisIsReversed>False</AxisIsReversed> <AxisIsRelative>False</AxisIsRelative> <XPosition>50</XPosition> <YPosition>50</YPosition> <HidEvent0> <DeviceNumber>1002</DeviceNumber> <Name>LED2(Throttle)</Name> <HidType>3</HidType> <EventType>2</EventType> <ActionType>4</ActionType> <ControlIndex>2</ControlIndex> </HidEvent0> </HidCommand10> <HidCommand11> <EventName>LED 3 OFF</EventName> <IsSequence>False</IsSequence> <Layers>1 32</Layers> <Delay>-1</Delay> <Comment> </Comment> <EventsNumber>1</EventsNumber> <StartTrigger>0</StartTrigger> <StopTrigger>0</StopTrigger> <CurveType>0</CurveType> <Lower>0</Lower> <Center>0</Center> <Upper>0</Upper> <Trim>0</Trim> <Curve>0</Curve> <Zoom>0</Zoom> <Rotate>0</Rotate> <AxisIsReversed>False</AxisIsReversed> <AxisIsRelative>False</AxisIsRelative> <XPosition>50</XPosition> <YPosition>50</YPosition> <HidEvent0> <DeviceNumber>1002</DeviceNumber> <Name>LED3(Throttle)</Name> <HidType>3</HidType> <EventType>2</EventType> <ActionType>4</ActionType> <ControlIndex>3</ControlIndex> </HidEvent0> </HidCommand11> <HidCommand12> <EventName>LED 4 OFF</EventName> <IsSequence>False</IsSequence> <Layers>1 32</Layers> <Delay>-1</Delay> <Comment> </Comment> <EventsNumber>1</EventsNumber> <StartTrigger>0</StartTrigger> <StopTrigger>0</StopTrigger> <CurveType>0</CurveType> <Lower>0</Lower> <Center>0</Center> <Upper>0</Upper> <Trim>0</Trim> <Curve>0</Curve> <Zoom>0</Zoom> <Rotate>0</Rotate> <AxisIsReversed>False</AxisIsReversed> <AxisIsRelative>False</AxisIsRelative> <XPosition>50</XPosition> <YPosition>50</YPosition> <HidEvent0> <DeviceNumber>1002</DeviceNumber> <Name>LED4(Throttle)</Name> <HidType>3</HidType> <EventType>2</EventType> <ActionType>4</ActionType> <ControlIndex>4</ControlIndex> </HidEvent0> </HidCommand12> <HidCommand13> <EventName>LED 5 OFF</EventName> <IsSequence>False</IsSequence> <Layers>1 32</Layers> <Delay>-1</Delay> <Comment> </Comment> <EventsNumber>1</EventsNumber> <StartTrigger>0</StartTrigger> <StopTrigger>0</StopTrigger> <CurveType>0</CurveType> <Lower>0</Lower> <Center>0</Center> <Upper>0</Upper> <Trim>0</Trim> <Curve>0</Curve> <Zoom>0</Zoom> <Rotate>0</Rotate> <AxisIsReversed>False</AxisIsReversed> <AxisIsRelative>False</AxisIsRelative> <XPosition>50</XPosition> <YPosition>50</YPosition> <HidEvent0> <DeviceNumber>1002</DeviceNumber> <Name>LED5(Throttle)</Name> <HidType>3</HidType> <EventType>2</EventType> <ActionType>4</ActionType> <ControlIndex>5</ControlIndex> </HidEvent0> </HidCommand13> <HidCommand14> <EventName>Backlight OFF</EventName> <IsSequence>False</IsSequence> <Layers>1 32</Layers> <Delay>-1</Delay> <Comment> </Comment> <EventsNumber>1</EventsNumber> <StartTrigger>0</StartTrigger> <StopTrigger>0</StopTrigger> <CurveType>0</CurveType> <Lower>0</Lower> <Center>0</Center> <Upper>0</Upper> <Trim>0</Trim> <Curve>0</Curve> <Zoom>0</Zoom> <Rotate>0</Rotate> <AxisIsReversed>False</AxisIsReversed> <AxisIsRelative>False</AxisIsRelative> <XPosition>50</XPosition> <YPosition>50</YPosition> <HidEvent0> <DeviceNumber>1002</DeviceNumber> <Name>LED0(Throttle)</Name> <HidType>3</HidType> <EventType>2</EventType> <ActionType>4</ActionType> <ControlIndex>0</ControlIndex> </HidEvent0> </HidCommand14> <HidCommand15> <EventName>L.H. Dash Lamp Decrease</EventName> <IsSequence>False</IsSequence> <Layers>1 32</Layers> <Delay>-1</Delay> <Comment> </Comment> <EventsNumber>2</EventsNumber> <StartTrigger>0</StartTrigger> <StopTrigger>0</StopTrigger> <CurveType>0</CurveType> <Lower>0</Lower> <Center>0</Center> <Upper>0</Upper> <Trim>0</Trim> <Curve>0</Curve> <Zoom>0</Zoom> <Rotate>0</Rotate> <AxisIsReversed>False</AxisIsReversed> <AxisIsRelative>False</AxisIsRelative> <XPosition>50</XPosition> <YPosition>50</YPosition> <HidEvent0> <DeviceNumber>-1</DeviceNumber> <Name>L_CTL</Name> <HidType>1</HidType> <EventType>3</EventType> <ActionType>1</ActionType> <ControlIndex>224</ControlIndex> </HidEvent0> <HidEvent1> <DeviceNumber>-1</DeviceNumber> <Name>n</Name> <HidType>1</HidType> <EventType>3</EventType> <ActionType>1</ActionType> <ControlIndex>17</ControlIndex> </HidEvent1> </HidCommand15> <HidCommand16> <EventName>L.H. Dash Lamp Decrease</EventName> <IsSequence>False</IsSequence> <Layers>1 32</Layers> <Delay>-1</Delay> <Comment> </Comment> <EventsNumber>2</EventsNumber> <StartTrigger>0</StartTrigger> <StopTrigger>0</StopTrigger> <CurveType>0</CurveType> <Lower>0</Lower> <Center>0</Center> <Upper>0</Upper> <Trim>0</Trim> <Curve>0</Curve> <Zoom>0</Zoom> <Rotate>0</Rotate> <AxisIsReversed>False</AxisIsReversed> <AxisIsRelative>False</AxisIsRelative> <XPosition>50</XPosition> <YPosition>50</YPosition> <HidEvent0> <DeviceNumber>-1</DeviceNumber> <Name>L_CTL</Name> <HidType>1</HidType> <EventType>3</EventType> <ActionType>1</ActionType> <ControlIndex>224</ControlIndex> </HidEvent0> <HidEvent1> <DeviceNumber>-1</DeviceNumber> <Name>n</Name> <HidType>1</HidType> <EventType>3</EventType> <ActionType>1</ActionType> <ControlIndex>17</ControlIndex> </HidEvent1> </HidCommand16> <HidCommand17> <EventName>L.H. Dash Lamp Decrease</EventName> <IsSequence>False</IsSequence> <Layers>1 32</Layers> <Delay>-1</Delay> <Comment> </Comment> <EventsNumber>2</EventsNumber> <StartTrigger>0</StartTrigger> <StopTrigger>0</StopTrigger> <CurveType>0</CurveType> <Lower>0</Lower> <Center>0</Center> <Upper>0</Upper> <Trim>0</Trim> <Curve>0</Curve> <Zoom>0</Zoom> <Rotate>0</Rotate> <AxisIsReversed>False</AxisIsReversed> <AxisIsRelative>False</AxisIsRelative> <XPosition>50</XPosition> <YPosition>50</YPosition> <HidEvent0> <DeviceNumber>-1</DeviceNumber> <Name>L_CTL</Name> <HidType>1</HidType> <EventType>3</EventType> <ActionType>1</ActionType> <ControlIndex>224</ControlIndex> </HidEvent0> <HidEvent1> <DeviceNumber>-1</DeviceNumber> <Name>n</Name> <HidType>1</HidType> <EventType>3</EventType> <ActionType>1</ActionType> <ControlIndex>17</ControlIndex> </HidEvent1> </HidCommand17> <HidCommand18> <EventName>L.H. Dash Lamp Decrease</EventName> <IsSequence>False</IsSequence> <Layers>1 32</Layers> <Delay>-1</Delay> <Comment> </Comment> <EventsNumber>2</EventsNumber> <StartTrigger>0</StartTrigger> <StopTrigger>0</StopTrigger> <CurveType>0</CurveType> <Lower>0</Lower> <Center>0</Center> <Upper>0</Upper> <Trim>0</Trim> <Curve>0</Curve> <Zoom>0</Zoom> <Rotate>0</Rotate> <AxisIsReversed>False</AxisIsReversed> <AxisIsRelative>False</AxisIsRelative> <XPosition>50</XPosition> <YPosition>50</YPosition> <HidEvent0> <DeviceNumber>-1</DeviceNumber> <Name>L_CTL</Name> <HidType>1</HidType> <EventType>3</EventType> <ActionType>1</ActionType> <ControlIndex>224</ControlIndex> </HidEvent0> <HidEvent1> <DeviceNumber>-1</DeviceNumber> <Name>n</Name> <HidType>1</HidType> <EventType>3</EventType> <ActionType>1</ActionType> <ControlIndex>17</ControlIndex> </HidEvent1> </HidCommand18> <HidCommand19> <EventName>L.H. Dash Lamp Decrease</EventName> <IsSequence>False</IsSequence> <Layers>1 32</Layers> <Delay>-1</Delay> <Comment> </Comment> <EventsNumber>2</EventsNumber> <StartTrigger>0</StartTrigger> <StopTrigger>0</StopTrigger> <CurveType>0</CurveType> <Lower>0</Lower> <Center>0</Center> <Upper>0</Upper> <Trim>0</Trim> <Curve>0</Curve> <Zoom>0</Zoom> <Rotate>0</Rotate> <AxisIsReversed>False</AxisIsReversed> <AxisIsRelative>False</AxisIsRelative> <XPosition>50</XPosition> <YPosition>50</YPosition> <HidEvent0> <DeviceNumber>-1</DeviceNumber> <Name>L_CTL</Name> <HidType>1</HidType> <EventType>3</EventType> <ActionType>1</ActionType> <ControlIndex>224</ControlIndex> </HidEvent0> <HidEvent1> <DeviceNumber>-1</DeviceNumber> <Name>n</Name> <HidType>1</HidType> <EventType>3</EventType> <ActionType>1</ActionType> <ControlIndex>17</ControlIndex> </HidEvent1> </HidCommand19> <HidCommand20> <EventName>R.H. Dash Lamp Decrease</EventName> <IsSequence>False</IsSequence> <Layers>1 32</Layers> <Delay>-1</Delay> <Comment> </Comment> <EventsNumber>2</EventsNumber> <StartTrigger>0</StartTrigger> <StopTrigger>0</StopTrigger> <CurveType>0</CurveType> <Lower>0</Lower> <Center>0</Center> <Upper>0</Upper> <Trim>0</Trim> <Curve>0</Curve> <Zoom>0</Zoom> <Rotate>0</Rotate> <AxisIsReversed>False</AxisIsReversed> <AxisIsRelative>False</AxisIsRelative> <XPosition>50</XPosition> <YPosition>50</YPosition> <HidEvent0> <DeviceNumber>-1</DeviceNumber> <Name>R_CTL</Name> <HidType>1</HidType> <EventType>3</EventType> <ActionType>1</ActionType> <ControlIndex>228</ControlIndex> </HidEvent0> <HidEvent1> <DeviceNumber>-1</DeviceNumber> <Name>n</Name> <HidType>1</HidType> <EventType>3</EventType> <ActionType>1</ActionType> <ControlIndex>17</ControlIndex> </HidEvent1> </HidCommand20> <HidCommand21> <EventName>R.H. Dash Lamp Decrease</EventName> <IsSequence>False</IsSequence> <Layers>1 32</Layers> <Delay>-1</Delay> <Comment> </Comment> <EventsNumber>2</EventsNumber> <StartTrigger>0</StartTrigger> <StopTrigger>0</StopTrigger> <CurveType>0</CurveType> <Lower>0</Lower> <Center>0</Center> <Upper>0</Upper> <Trim>0</Trim> <Curve>0</Curve> <Zoom>0</Zoom> <Rotate>0</Rotate> <AxisIsReversed>False</AxisIsReversed> <AxisIsRelative>False</AxisIsRelative> <XPosition>50</XPosition> <YPosition>50</YPosition> <HidEvent0> <DeviceNumber>-1</DeviceNumber> <Name>R_CTL</Name> <HidType>1</HidType> <EventType>3</EventType> <ActionType>1</ActionType> <ControlIndex>228</ControlIndex> </HidEvent0> <HidEvent1> <DeviceNumber>-1</DeviceNumber> <Name>n</Name> <HidType>1</HidType> <EventType>3</EventType> <ActionType>1</ActionType> <ControlIndex>17</ControlIndex> </HidEvent1> </HidCommand21> <HidCommand22> <EventName>R.H. Dash Lamp Decrease</EventName> <IsSequence>False</IsSequence> <Layers>1 32</Layers> <Delay>-1</Delay> <Comment> </Comment> <EventsNumber>2</EventsNumber> <StartTrigger>0</StartTrigger> <StopTrigger>0</StopTrigger> <CurveType>0</CurveType> <Lower>0</Lower> <Center>0</Center> <Upper>0</Upper> <Trim>0</Trim> <Curve>0</Curve> <Zoom>0</Zoom> <Rotate>0</Rotate> <AxisIsReversed>False</AxisIsReversed> <AxisIsRelative>False</AxisIsRelative> <XPosition>50</XPosition> <YPosition>50</YPosition> <HidEvent0> <DeviceNumber>-1</DeviceNumber> <Name>R_CTL</Name> <HidType>1</HidType> <EventType>3</EventType> <ActionType>1</ActionType> <ControlIndex>228</ControlIndex> </HidEvent0> <HidEvent1> <DeviceNumber>-1</DeviceNumber> <Name>n</Name> <HidType>1</HidType> <EventType>3</EventType> <ActionType>1</ActionType> <ControlIndex>17</ControlIndex> </HidEvent1> </HidCommand22> <HidCommand23> <EventName>R.H. Dash Lamp Decrease</EventName> <IsSequence>False</IsSequence> <Layers>1 32</Layers> <Delay>-1</Delay> <Comment> </Comment> <EventsNumber>2</EventsNumber> <StartTrigger>0</StartTrigger> <StopTrigger>0</StopTrigger> <CurveType>0</CurveType> <Lower>0</Lower> <Center>0</Center> <Upper>0</Upper> <Trim>0</Trim> <Curve>0</Curve> <Zoom>0</Zoom> <Rotate>0</Rotate> <AxisIsReversed>False</AxisIsReversed> <AxisIsRelative>False</AxisIsRelative> <XPosition>50</XPosition> <YPosition>50</YPosition> <HidEvent0> <DeviceNumber>-1</DeviceNumber> <Name>R_CTL</Name> <HidType>1</HidType> <EventType>3</EventType> <ActionType>1</ActionType> <ControlIndex>228</ControlIndex> </HidEvent0> <HidEvent1> <DeviceNumber>-1</DeviceNumber> <Name>n</Name> <HidType>1</HidType> <EventType>3</EventType> <ActionType>1</ActionType> <ControlIndex>17</ControlIndex> </HidEvent1> </HidCommand23> <HidCommand24> <EventName>R.H. Dash Lamp Decrease</EventName> <IsSequence>False</IsSequence> <Layers>1 32</Layers> <Delay>-1</Delay> <Comment> </Comment> <EventsNumber>2</EventsNumber> <StartTrigger>0</StartTrigger> <StopTrigger>0</StopTrigger> <CurveType>0</CurveType> <Lower>0</Lower> <Center>0</Center> <Upper>0</Upper> <Trim>0</Trim> <Curve>0</Curve> <Zoom>0</Zoom> <Rotate>0</Rotate> <AxisIsReversed>False</AxisIsReversed> <AxisIsRelative>False</AxisIsRelative> <XPosition>50</XPosition> <YPosition>50</YPosition> <HidEvent0> <DeviceNumber>-1</DeviceNumber> <Name>R_CTL</Name> <HidType>1</HidType> <EventType>3</EventType> <ActionType>1</ActionType> <ControlIndex>228</ControlIndex> </HidEvent0> <HidEvent1> <DeviceNumber>-1</DeviceNumber> <Name>n</Name> <HidType>1</HidType> <EventType>3</EventType> <ActionType>1</ActionType> <ControlIndex>17</ControlIndex> </HidEvent1> </HidCommand24> </Events> </HidEvent> </Event2> <Event3> Win 10 pro 64 bit. Intel i7 4790 4 Ghz running at 4.6. Asus z97 pro wifi main board, 32 gig 2400 ddr3 gold ram, 50 inch 4K UHD and HDR TV for monitor. H80 cpu cooler. 8 other cooling fans in full tower server case. Soundblaster ZX sound card. EVGA 1080 TI FTW3. TM Hotas Wartog. TM T.16000M MFG Crosswinds Pedals. Trackir 5. "Everyone should fly a Spitfire at least once" John S. Blyth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fitness88 Posted November 19, 2018 Share Posted November 19, 2018 I love Target. It takes a bit to learn but it is pretty darn handy. One gets used to where the buttons are and if logically laid out it is perfect. The sticktion issues are real. I count on buying a stick per year. I fly an awful lot being retired and all. A 3 or 4 inch extension solves the spring problem and suits the warbirds for stick travel nicely. An example of why I like Target is what I did today on my Spitfire script. There is no battery switch in the cockpit although I believe there is one elsewhere. I decided to use Target to make my own pseudo switch by chaining the right number of commands together on one hard to get at switch. It takes some learning and some tough debugging to put together a perfect script with no conflicts but check it out. One press of the S3 button while holding the lever in takes care of everything marked IM and switches them off: DeepDrummer thanks for the feedback on the TW. BTW...Saitek software has great mapping software as well that lets you chain, macro, quantize etc. and I find it quite user friendly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flamin_Squirrel Posted November 19, 2018 Share Posted November 19, 2018 I got my hands on a friends TW for awhile. The increase in control is very apparent with the smoothness of response :shocking: What were you using before?! It must have been bad! A VKB or Virpil stick would blow your mind :lol: I'm glad you liked it. Maybe your friend has one of the better ones? Mine was awful and was glad to be rid of it. Couldn't recommend it at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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