Operation "Blue Flag" - 24/7 PvP Campaign - ROUND 9

One unit position bug: Senaki airfield while controlled by blue side, one of the BUK launchers was on the runway when I landed there earlier today. I was in a rush and didn't get a screenshot, but if landing heading east, it was on the right side of the runway, about halfway down (mid-length).

More info as I have time waiting in an airport :) :

FUEL

Repair / Fuel Crate - +50000 KG (50 Metric tons)

Every base starts with - 1000000 KG (1000 Metric tons)

When Fuel Dump is repaired at a base - +10000 KG (10 Metric tons)

Fuel is transferred by an automated process to all linked friendly (same coalition - non closed) bases at a rate of 7500 KG every 5 minutes

The list below shows fuel bases and who is supplied by what. This list will likely change as this was done quickly before I headed out. Names wont quite match map (as this is from the config file) but you can work it out quite easily :)

Tskhinvali

- NALCHIK

- BESLAN

- TBLISI

- VAZIANI

Zestafoni

- KUTASI

- SENAKI

- KOBULETI

- BATUMI

- GUDAUTA

- SUKHUMI

- SOCHI

Udarnyy

- VODY

- NALCHIK

- BESLAN

- MOZDOK

Goryachiv

- ANAPA

- NOVO

- KRYMSK

- KRASNODARC

- MAYKOP

- SOCHI

Destroying or capturing the Fuel bases will redirect or stop this fuel flow :)

You can temporarily block spawns at some bases that have fuel dumps by destroying them - those slots cant be used until the dump is repaired.

Fuel is removed at takeoff and added back when landing. You'll see the amount of fuel you took and dropped back in the takeoff and landing messages. The fuel value matches to the correct value for the aircraft as it is calculated per aircraft and per actual current fuel load. This also means burnt fuel is lost and obviously not added back when landing :)

By taking off and landing at a different base you do also transfer fuel but its a pretty ineffcient way to move large amounts.

Fuel is here to stay - as its one of the many ways we try steer BlueFlag away from Airquake (we have nothing against it - its just not the point of BF) - but the amounts transferred and other mechanisms around it will likely be tweaked :)

Any helicopter (except KA50) any TF-51D can transfer Fuel / Repair Crates so everyone can help out. No one needs to be a dedicated fuel mule, but a relatively quick flight can really make a difference. The TF even has a seperate lives pool and can also be used for recon and normal crates (yes you can build a SAM site if you're cray enough). It is also purposely unarmed so CAP have some more work to do :D

REPAIR

Repair times are set from the FIRST unit destroyed in a group. This means if a single unit from a group is gone, the random timer starts. Closing a base does not reset this timer - nor does dropping a repair crate. A Repair crate will instantly repair a group of that base, starting with the Fuel bunkers if they're down and will not affect the repair timer. Repair crates are dropped via F10 and dont need to be unpacked. This also applies at the start of a mission - i.e a damaged base will start its repair cycle on anything thats not 100%

Repair times are anywhere from 30 - 55 minutes (randomly) and also dependant on the type of base.

When a damaged group repairs - the entire group repawns. The amount of groups vs units will be tweaked at each base over time so that the entire base doesnt respawn when one group is fixed.

CLOSED BASES & CAPTURE

When a base is closed - some base types spawn a group of soldiers as a last ditch defense. You CANNOT capture the base until these units are found and destroyed - They will be hard to find!

You also cannot capture if there are any units of the opposing side still present - i.e if they somehow hid a JTAC, stinger or just other troops around. This could happen if a base flips between sides repeatedly as you cannot unpack crates or drop troops in a friendly area

To help with this - every single player can now drop marker smoke using F10 and JTACS are designed for this role too to help find the last defenders so team work as always is very very important. Due to the persistence of JTACS now it means you can drop one in advance of moving on the objective.

A base can only be captured if there are two or more standard soldiers (M4, paratrooper or MG gunner) on the base so RPG & Mortars wont do the job.

Once captured - you will not be able to spawn their until you repair the base or it repairs to reopen it.

EWR

EWR units will spot incoming enemy flights and alert everyone. EWR units on airfields can be destroyed which stops this

BOMBERS

Bomber script is back in and working - For now just the TF-51D can use this script but we'll likely add the L-39 as well for this and possibly the Mistral Gazelle (which will not get troops)

CTLD UNITS

ALL dropped crate units (not troops) are now persistent. Currently its forever, unless the unit is destroyed but this will change to X hours depending on the unit type. Should be able to work on that this week when im back :)

General Notes

Again - this is "blah, blah, blah beta" - As in, its unfinished and the fact it works is a miracle. :)

Hardly any of the final player slots are in place and unit positions will need tweaking so please report if you see things in odd places. Please keep - My favourite X is missing... to a minimum - We know, its just not there yet :)

I'm not sure where the idea came from that we wanted unarmed choppers? None of us said that... Rest assured choppers will be (optionally) armed in the final version and FARPS will be present at helicopter spawns so you can change the loadouts. If you guys list some typical loadouts that you like for the Mi8 and Huey - We might be able to manually set that for a few of them in the interim

Spawning of choppers will always be on the ground - to stop the spawning collision bugs, so you will have to tootle on over to the FARP to rearm

Rearm wont work if the supporting vehicles are destroyed around the FARP as per usual DCS. On the Mi-8 - dont forget to use the INTERCOM switch or the ground crew will ignore you...

Viggens - Ground rearm is unfortunately not quite working yet but should be fixed soon by ED in a patch.

Moving units - Still out on the whole due to lag but we'll see how we go in a later round.

Bases & Positions - Bases are still not fixed and more may be addded, removed or moved about as there are some empty areas on the map. The general idea is also to try to stop 40 minute plus flights for the UH1 but there may still be some long journeys.

Lone Wolfs - There's still plenty to do, launch bombers, drop fuel, provide CAP, bring troops, build defences - But team cohesion is really the most important thing in BF so get on comms and work together. Its more fun that way too but we try not to discriminate at all against solo players :)

Most Importantly!

We do welcome feedback, I hope you can see that we DO listen and make changes but time is currently lacking for us all again but rest assured we are working when we can to get this stable and ready for the next round. 2 Weeks to be sure :)

We hope you all have fun on the new setup and performance seems to be hugely improved which was the most important part of this work :)

Please let us know if you see bugs or serious, persistent lag (rather than a temporary spike)

Apologies for the wall of text - hope its useful

Fantastic wall of text Ciribob, amazing work. Unless someone objects, can we have the kb pod on grounded Viggens as an interim fix.

Fantastic wall of text Ciribob, amazing work. Unless someone objects, can we have the kb pod on grounded Viggens as an interim fix.

Agree on the wall of text, forum doesnt allow me to add more rep to ciribob.

KB pod is for the weak. Real men spoof radars with RB05 and stare heatseekers to death. ;D

2 xrb24j, 4xRB75 1x X-Tank is the way to got. TM. ;P

Unlike those two posers, this guy was real and the top-scoring Tomcat Ace #RedCat

 

Flying against Iraqis...that's like saying someone can beat a North Korean pilot...

Flying against Iraqis...that's like saying someone can beat a North Korean pilot...

OMG LOL!

Any possibility of removing spectator mode soon? Was this intentionally left enabled for testing?

Any possibility of removing spectator mode soon? Was this intentionally left enabled for testing?

I noticed @Ciribob didn't make any mention of fixing this issue in his post, wondering what the status of the F10 situation is and when we can see it fixed.

I noticed @Ciribob didn't make any mention of fixing this issue in his post, wondering what the status of the F10 situation is and when we can see it fixed.

Nope it wasn't left on intentionally at all - just left in from editing.

I'll try to remove when I'm back from work tomorrow or more likely Tuesday :)

Sent from my ONEPLUS A3003 using Tapatalk

Can we make bombers come in from a farther distance or limit the number of them. They seem to be a crutch for CAS. A P51 can kill a farp with bombers by the time the other side can get cap there. IMHO the bomber should come from a farther distance or have a cool down timer so 3 farps close together arent closed by the time we can get cap there.

Made a couple attempts to close and capture Zestafoni today...got close to closing it with 20 minutes left before reset but wasn't successful, so we waited for restart. Restart came and we got back in position (4x Ka50 and Mi-8 with troops), but didn't want things to respawn as the transport came in to land so we waited for unit respawn/repair to do it over again. SAMs never respawned after 50 minutes so we started on the bunkers...ten minutes later we were down to two bunkers left and going in for guns. Suddenly EVERYTHING respawned...SAMs, AAA, and all of the bunkers. I don't think it was a huey bringing in repair crate as we would have seen it.

So a total of 90 minutes (with a restart in between) went by before units and buildings respawned there. That doesn't seem congruent with the time frames that have been stated, which is discouraging.

Is there a way to add a player proximity check that prevents objects from implausibly spawning right under someone and insta-blasting them out of the sky? I've seen it happen multiple times now that a transport makes it to a closed base just under the wire only to get blown up by SAMs being magically teleported to the area and I can only helplessly watch from my Ka50 cockpit.

 

KB pod is for the weak. Real men spoof radars with RB05 and stare heatseekers to death. ;D

 

No matey, when probing strange places real men wear protection.;)

Tbilisi AF was completely destroyed today and would only go down to 20% with no closure. This was verified with spectator mode showing zero blue units at Tbilisi.

Can we make bombers come in from a farther distance or limit the number of them. They seem to be a crutch for CAS. A P51 can kill a farp with bombers by the time the other side can get cap there. IMHO the bomber should come from a farther distance or have a cool down timer so 3 farps close together arent closed by the time we can get cap there.

Will work on bombers. I did up the spawn distance to a minimum of 60 KM but will up a bit.

Also going to add a limit to concurrent bomber flights (2 per side) :)

Bombers have also had their loadout reduced to reduce the damage they do from 10 bombs to 3 :)

Made a couple attempts to close and capture Zestafoni today...got close to closing it with 20 minutes left before reset but wasn't successful, so we waited for restart. Restart came and we got back in position (4x Ka50 and Mi-8 with troops), but didn't want things to respawn as the transport came in to land so we waited for unit respawn/repair to do it over again. SAMs never respawned after 50 minutes so we started on the bunkers...ten minutes later we were down to two bunkers left and going in for guns. Suddenly EVERYTHING respawned...SAMs, AAA, and all of the bunkers. I don't think it was a huey bringing in repair crate as we would have seen it.

 

So a total of 90 minutes (with a restart in between) went by before units and buildings respawned there. That doesn't seem congruent with the time frames that have been stated, which is discouraging.

 

Is there a way to add a player proximity check that prevents objects from implausibly spawning right under someone and insta-blasting them out of the sky? I've seen it happen multiple times now that a transport makes it to a closed base just under the wire only to get blown up by SAMs being magically teleported to the area and I can only helplessly watch from my Ka50 cockpit.

Timing wise - that actually sounds ok.

Zestafoni has a repair time of between 30-45. When the round restarted, this timer would be reset and start hence why you saw a repair.

It also only has 3 groups - so could in theory fully repair in an hour and a half or an hour if only two groups are damaged.

Spawning of AA systems is random within 100m of mission starting position so spawning under someone is just unlucky. Checking positions is unfortunately quite intensive so not something we'd normally do or it'l lag.

The fact you saw both repair is odd but if it was a bug it would be happening at every base - not just one so i'd guess a sneaky repair plus normal repair.

Tbilisi AF was completely destroyed today and would only go down to 20% with no closure. This was verified with spectator mode showing zero blue units at Tbilisi.

This one is slightly more odd - i'll see if I can replicate later this week. If this ever happens - bring a JTAC to be totally sure there's nothing left.

Thanks for reporting :)

Something I missed in the mega post was Fuel bunkers at airbases - they are different from normal groups in that they are treated as a whole. They dont count as destroyed until all are destroyed but they dont need to be repaired unless ALL are destroyed. They also dont have partial destruction state, either the entire group is there or not and partially destroyed state isnt changed. Usually there is only one bunker at an airbase so doesnt make a difference but worth knowing

Those bunkers are safer than the aircrafts that try to land it seems :D

Thank you for all your hard work on this!!

No matey, when probing strange places real men wear protection.;)

LOL Its hard to come back from that one without sounding really weird. ;D

Those bunkers are safer than the aircrafts that try to land it seems :D

Runway defence bunkers, no hostile shall be accepted to land lol.

Thank you for the updates Ciribob.

Unfortunately I am currently grounded and cannot contribute to testing the new setup… Anyway, the changes announced in this thread sound great and I am really looking forward to fly in the new Blue Flag campaign.

I really like the new fuel economy system! Hope it will work out and maybe one day in the future we have a similar system for weapons and airframes! Also I am looking forward to flying the TF-51 and pretending to be in a big transport plane…

Still I am wondering about some things:

- I am somewhat concerned about the lack of Farps in the mountain area… Maybe it is intended that way but I think two or three additional Farps (somewhere between Vody/Gudauta/Sukhumi and between Beslan/Tbilisi) would be nice.

- Do you plan to bring CSAR back?

- What do you think about some additional buildable AA units? Some ZSU-23 trucks or similar AA guns might be a nice addition to SA-6 and Iglas…

If a bases fuel bunkers are destroyed, does the base then have no fuel?

I also noticed bunkers not spawning on each other anymore. That is a really nice fix!

Why do not you turn off the observer mode?

A couple of things since it seems my last question was missed...

Is there a reason why the Flanker is now starting with zero fuel?

Second, and this was brought up in TS, why does the Mirage have the IR detection module? As I understand it, and correct me if Im wrong, BF, as it currently sits, is modeled on an 80s theme. That's why certain missiles are restricted. If that is the case, why does the Mirage have this module? Didn't it come out after? Furthermore, that module was never even intended to be on the C. It was made for the ground attack variant of the plane. I get why the devs added it as it gives something new, but doesn't it depart from what BF is? Why are we allowing the Mirage to have something it never had, but afraid to give the Flanker something like datalink that it had in real life?

I guess, all in all, Im just getting tired of everyone and their mother flying the m2000. I know that some people would like all of BF to be full of high fidelity planes, but that is just not going to happen right now due to a lack of modules. Im just continually trying to wrap my head around why everyone is always so obsessed with nerfing the Su27 and its ET and datalink, the F15 and its 120, but don't do anything about the Mirage and its IR detection, better modeled missile in the 530, IRL the 27R and AIM7 are just as good, and faster fuel rate. I get that the fuel rate is probably modeled correctly, but it frustrates me that the mirage can get air born in 2 min, while the Flanker spends 7 minuets refueling.

/rant

P.S. I know there is nothing that can be done about the missile modeling etc. Its just frustrating that other planes are nerfed and this thing is just left out to do whatever Im assuming because its on both sides.

Why do not you turn off the observer mode?

Ciribob has said that he is addressing this and it was not an intended thing to have left on. It was just something that was left on while editing.

I guess, all in all, Im just getting tired of everyone and their mother flying the m2000.

/rant

I'm also sick of the Mirage wars. I don't think it should go, but maybe give something to the red to combat it. (ER) or datalink. Them move m2000 to blue. Not sure what this would do to balance though. As it is now, its M2000 vs M2000

I'm also sick of the M2000s war. I don't think it should go, but maybe give something to the red to combat it. (ER) or datalink. Them move m2000 to blue. Not sure what this would do to balance though. As it is now, its M2000 vs M2000

My last rant was in no way me bitching about BF. Im just trying to help with balance and come with ideas. I think a lot of people are tired of the Mirage v Mirage battles that have been going on.

Something to look at is the 104th's Operation Bisen mission. That mission has the Russian planes pitted against F15s and Mirages. However, the Su27 has the ER in that mission. Hell, Im pretty sure it even has datalink as AWACS is enabled. Even though those 2 things are true, more people fly that mission on both sides than any other mission that 104th offers.

Going back to missiles real quick since Bisen gives the Su27 the ER. The 27R and 27T are really really bad. As Ive said before its like launching cinder blocks from your wings. I think giving the 27 and 29 the ER would really help in the fighter battles. As it sits right now if I can't sneak up on someone I have to turn around. The 27R and T are that bad. Im pretty confident the R73 has a longer range than the T. Occasionally I will get a kill with an R, but that is more because the enemy pilot flew straight into it.