Operation "Blue Flag" - 24/7 PvP Campaign - ROUND 9

Traveling 130nm to get to something to shoot down is such a mundane task, too. Let's move all the opposing bases closer together so we can just get right back to spamming missiles at each other after we get shot down, because **** penalties for being bested by another player, I want my action. Right?

The travel times, the re-arm, the lost life are enough penalties.

And comparing Flying and navigating, acquiring communications and Situational awareness equal to Something that you can do while ALT-Tabed is idiocy at its finest and a false equivalency argument also a straw-man argument.

I mean you just hit the hat trick of useless logic arguments.

Full fuel and fourth gen aircraft pushed right out to the outskirts of the map is what i'd like to see. Transitioning from one base to a more forward one gives justification to refuelling and just feels right, less airquake and more mission planning. Therefore instant action happens in the MiG21 and F5, it's win, win in my book.

 

Blue flag shouldn't be about 4th gen vs 4th gen there are other servers for that. If you can't handle a bit of transit then you're in the wrong server. This is the sort of mission style that has been lost and replaced with quick action gaming, people just can't wait to get shotdown rather than concentrate on mission specifics such as CAP and escort they choose to go all out 1 v many.

Now see @abortman this is a logical argument,

@Frostie, I am assuming here that you are saying you want 4Gen to be on airbases like Anapa only for Red and lets say Vaziani for Blue? B/c As of last BF that was the case for "Home" bases most of the time.

Well I get that, used to be common practice in IL2 to have a setup like that, and it worked for maps like that. The Real Issue here is the Gap between the Mig21/F5 Vs 4th gen aircraft is soo huge, I mean if we had lets say F4E/Mig23MLD as the low end and F15/Su27 as the high then I would totally see that working. but if 4th Gen fighters are pushed all the way back, then pushing or capturing any airbase will be near impossible in "equal numbers" scenario, as the further you push the further you 4th gen aircraft will be the closer the hostiles will be.

I think Adding a separate life pool was the perfect solution for the low end Aircraft, i advocated for 6 lives but 4 is workable as well.

@Frostie, I am assuming here that you are saying you want 4Gen to be on airbases like Anapa only for Red and lets say Vaziani for Blue? B/c As of last BF that was the case for "Home" bases most of the time.

 

Well I get that, used to be common practice in IL2 to have a setup like that, and it worked for maps like that. The Real Issue here is the Gap between the Mig21/F5 Vs 4th gen aircraft is soo huge, I mean if we had lets say F4E/Mig23MLD as the low end and F15/Su27 as the high then I would totally see that working. but if 4th Gen fighters are pushed all the way back, then pushing or capturing any airbase will be near impossible in "equal numbers" scenario, as the further you push the further you 4th gen aircraft will be the closer the hostiles will be.

 

I think Adding a separate life pool was the perfect solution for the low end Aircraft, i advocated for 6 lives but 4 is workable as well.

That is a problem but what would solve this is my other pretty please wish and that is more focus on attrition. I know the resource manager in DCS handles weapon and aircraft stocks and you can move these stocks to different airbases by flying them there. In a mission we had running on the 51st server I modified C130s to carry 20 AIM120s and had two of them deliver them to Batumi at a trigger this needed escorting by players of course. I also coincided a base capture with a cargo plane bringing 25mpus to the base.

What i'd love to see is the ability to transit say Su27s and weapons to Sochi or even Senaki, just a simple player task of flying a fully loaded Su27 to Sochi and landing. If Sochi was taken back those Flankers would be lost and where ever they came from would be short also. This would work for all, so Mi8s could be stockpiled at forward airbases to save long journeys from farps, Anapa and Krasnodar for example could maybe have infinity aircraft and weapons and then let the war of attrition begin.

Weapon and ac stocks would get low so flying 21s and F5s would be much more effective and popular.

That is a problem but what would solve this is my other pretty please wish and that is more focus on attrition. I know the resource manager in DCS handles weapon and aircraft stocks and you can move these stocks to different airbases by flying them there. In a mission we had running on the 51st server I modified C130s to carry 20 AIM120s and had two of them deliver them to Batumi at a trigger this needed escorting by players of course. I also coincided a base capture with a cargo plane bringing 25mpus to the base.

What i'd love to see is the ability to transit say Su27s and weapons to Sochi or even Senaki, just a simple player task of flying a fully loaded Su27 to Sochi and landing. If Sochi was taken back those Flankers would be lost and where ever they came from would be short also. This would work for all, so Mi8s could be stockpiled at forward airbases to save long journeys from farps, Anapa and Krasnodar for example could maybe have infinity aircraft and weapons and then let the war of attrition begin.

Weapon and ac stocks would get low so flying 21s and F5s would be much more effective and popular.

I honestly think a system like that will be amazing, I always wished for something similar. a Simple RTS logic system will work wonders for blue flags.

U get 5 factories each producing 5 things per hour, and take 1 server rotation to repair, and replenish the stocks of aircraft and high end missiles. they will be defended with light AA, but need to be hit with standard bombs as they should be behind airbases. Pretty sure a System like that is doable will balance 4th gen. BF has soo much more possible depth. But between a complex mission and performance its hard to get it all right. ED should be working on stuff like this even as a paid "mission"

Slippery slopes are a dangerous thing. You put more fighters in the air quicker and you suddenly have a completely different mission/server (for the worse).

Why is this so hard to comprehend?

Slippery slopes are a dangerous thing. You put more fighters in the air quicker and you suddenly have a completely different mission/server (for the worse).

 

Why is this so hard to comprehend?

b/c its been going on now for nearly 6 Rounds or about a year since the M2k was added, and had no effect at all aside from the people in FC3 aircrafts sitting on the ground while the M2k does its job. how is that so hard to comprehend?

b/c its been going on now for nearly 6 Rounds or about a year since the M2k was added, and had no effect at all aside from the people in FC3 aircrafts sitting on the ground while the M2k does its job. how is that so hard to comprehend?

It's pretty hard, since you seem to be contradicting yourself. Which is it, "refueling only affects very rare situations" or "FC3 aircraft sitting on the ground while M2K does its job"?

Are you not aware of the current state of Mirage spam that is to the detriment of the mission? Do you really want literally everyone in fighters at all times on Blue Flag? That's exactly what will happen if fueling is not a time-gate for fighter aircraft.

Full fuel and fourth gen aircraft pushed right out to the outskirts of the map is what i'd like to see. Transitioning from one base to a more forward one gives justification to refuelling and just feels right, less airquake and more mission planning. Therefore instant action happens in the MiG21 and F5, it's win, win in my book.

 

Blue flag shouldn't be about 4th gen vs 4th gen there are other servers for that. If you can't handle a bit of transit then you're in the wrong server. This is the sort of mission style that has been lost and replaced with quick action gaming, people just can't wait to get shotdown rather than concentrate on mission specifics such as CAP and escort they choose to go all out 1 v many.

I was telling someone yesterday this as well. I was ferrying a mig29 to the front and I actually enjoyed the high alt cruise phase. Someone else was ferrying a su25T. Only problem was after refueling, flying 200nm, refueling again, the server had 10min before restart :-(.

I agree, keep the 4th gen in back but give them fuel. It will still take them time to get to AO and maybe value that life a little more.

It's pretty hard, since you seem to be contradicting yourself. Which is it, "refueling only affects very rare situations" or "FC3 aircraft sitting on the ground while M2K does its job"?

 

Are you not aware of the current state of Mirage spam that is to the detriment of the mission? Do you really want literally everyone in fighters at all times on Blue Flag? That's exactly what will happen if fueling is not a time-gate for fighter aircraft.

:huh:

I dont think you followed him at all. Were not talking fighter ratio to cas a/c. That sorts it self out when groups make a plan and do an organized attack.

I was telling someone yesterday this as well. I was ferrying a mig29 to the front and I actually enjoyed the high alt cruise phase. Someone else was ferrying a su25T. Only problem was after refueling, flying 200nm, refueling again, the server had 10min before restart :-(.

 

 

 

I agree, keep the 4th gen in back but give them fuel. It will still take them time to get to AO and maybe value that life a little more.

This is actually a great point. This would significantly help when a side gets backed into their last airbases. Give anapa and and a similar blue base full fuel gen4s. You can take them, but you have to fly forever. Put a small amount of strategically placed gen4s closer, but make them spend seven mins fueling up.

I also really like the factory idea and I think Cribob is already working on it, he just calls them fuel bases. If we can add some missile stores to the logic, that might also make the cargo missions more powerful in blue flag. Maybe a p51 can carry either just fuel or just arms. But not both. Fuel/arms are only generated at a fuel base (p51 can take off from dirt!) but you can also ferry fuel/arms from a base with many supplies to a base with no supplies.

TJ

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This is actually a great point. This would significantly help when a side gets backed into their last airbases. Give anapa and and a similar blue base full fuel gen4s. You can take them, but you have to fly forever. Put a small amount of strategically placed gen4s closer, but make them spend seven mins fueling up.

 

I also really like the factory idea and I think Cribob is already working on it, he just calls them fuel bases. If we can add some missile stores to the logic, that might also make the cargo missions more powerful in blue flag. Maybe a p51 can carry either just fuel or just arms. But not both. Fuel/arms are only generated at a fuel base (p51 can take off from dirt!) but you can also ferry fuel/arms from a base with many supplies to a base with no supplies.

 

TJ

 

 

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Anyone able to land the P-51 successfully at a fuel base? I am so rusty on that thing that I have only managed to smash my landing gear each time I go to land.

I do like the 51s as recon, but can we get one TF-51 and one P-51 fighter variant as recon, instead of two TF-51s? I imagine these will not be in high demand, and I'd much rather just have some machine guns, you know, in case I see an enemy helo I want to go battle.

Where are the Mistral spawns?

Thats my main yo!

Anyone able to land the P-51 successfully at a fuel base? I am so rusty on that thing that I have only managed to smash my landing gear each time I go to land.

 

 

 

I do like the 51s as recon, but can we get one TF-51 and one P-51 fighter variant as recon, instead of two TF-51s? I imagine these will not be in high demand, and I'd much rather just have some machine guns, you know, in case I see an enemy helo I want to go battle.

I was more thinking you'd start from the fuel base so you didn't have to worry about landing on the grass.

I'd be up for allowing the p51 to be used and for it still to only take recon lives. Restrict the rockets and bombs if your worried, but I really don't see a p51 doing much against two shilkas and two sa9s.

TJ

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Donated $25 as a "gift" to put some Mistral spawns in :)

I was more thinking you'd start from the fuel base so you didn't have to worry about landing on the grass.

 

I'd be up for allowing the p51 to be used and for it still to only take recon lives. Restrict the rockets and bombs if your worried, but I really don't see a p51 doing much against two shilkas and two sa9s.

 

TJ

 

 

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Be great for killing JTACs though. I seen one taking off from gudata the other day. I wanted smoke rockets or guns so I could show a local guy where it was.

I love the new statistics page, it would be cool to see a most used aircraft column too! As for flight times and fuel, I have always felt very limited in the Mirage, especially during those Beslan sorties after flying from Tiblsi area. I remember reading somewhere that during the Korean War the Sabres would fly a decent amount of time to only have ~15 minutes of playtime in the AO. Its an interesting mechanic, because it enforces staggering reinforcements (more teamwork), afterburner discipline, and more meaning to each life (less airquake). I also learned the hard way (several times) that bingo means "go home now".

What's with the Mustang being a recon plane? I mean, I'd rather have the MiG-15 and the Sabre instead. Both could start and land on roads too. That'd be great! The 2 forgotten modules of DCS. Always left out of any event :(

What's with the Mustang being a recon plane? I mean, I'd rather have the MiG-15 and the Sabre instead. Both could start and land on roads too. That'd be great! The 2 forgotten modules of DCS. Always left out of any event :(

Everyone has the TF-51, so everyone can do recon and take fuel to bases. Seems pretty fair.

I know it's beta blah blah.

Tried the new version for the first time this weekend. I don't know what to think.

Didn't have the L or Mistral which instantly made it hard to enjoy objectively. Flew around as a spectator just to see what the bases, farps, and fuel dumps look like.

I gotta say the I don't know what to think about the massive number of buildings that make up the current points. Had a moment of huh what is this. 16 bunkers at fuel dumps? Where's the fuel?

One farp had an sa18, sa8 and sa3. If any of those don't spawn my point is a farp had 3 types of sams. Things were spawned in weird formations.

Really don't like that helos dont spawn at bases. Tried to rearm a Huey at a farp which wasn't possible.

Blue is really boned on farps between tiblisi and senaki. There is a huge gap for blue in terms of farps between these two bases. It's very easy for red coming south to choke off the east and west blue bases. Red almost always has access to close bases even when being pushed back. Blue has the opposite. There is a huge gap flight time wise that needs to be filled in this part of the map.

One farp near the old mm05 is only viggens. Speaking of which viggens are everywhere.

Last is the whole fuel flying around stuff. I'm not sure I like the direction it's heading. The old version while airquakeish did have its teamwork and realism, mainly thanks to the amazing srs I experienced. The new version seems like it's designed for the super hardcore and imo just seems boring.

I get the idea behind it and while it's a valiant attempt I think if it continues its present coarse that it's to much in the hard core/boring direction. I feel like I need to fly with 5 close friends because of the complexity. Where as the old one I could make due with randoms.

I really wish the fuel were AI planes and if you wanted to do it yourself you could. I loved setting up air defenses on the old map as a helo but I'll tell you this now. I'll never play as a fuel mule. Who seriously would find that enjoyable?

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Yeah... +1 on the above sentiments.

The new respawn timers are ridiculous! FARP is closed after a fairly quick attack, helo is 10 minutes out, and the thing respawns within 5 minutes of being closed.

I don't understand FARPs from the standpoint of being a helo. Am I not supposed to adjust fuel or take on weapons? Where the hell is the actual FARP? I spawn in a field with nothing around.

I don't like the new direction this server is going and by the looks of user loads, neither do others.

Do you guys even read.

Ciribob said until monday probably no changes because busy. He listed what is missing and he wants to do so yeah. There is a large amount of redundancy.

The fueling mechanic is also still worked on and during real rounds there _allways_ was the fuel component. Blueflag is a strategic setup as well, not only tactical. And yes the Idea is that flying alone or with randoms in a non coordinated fashion doesnt get you much.

I'm loving the new setup. It's definitely still WIP, but the issues that need adjusting will get adjusting. It's not supposed to be finalized yet, so I don't understand the anger in some posts. Obviously point out the things that need changing, but this is part of the process of them developing the mission.

Also, I've noticed a lot of our past recommendations being implemented. Some of them are good, and some have turned out to be not as good. But, again, the mission is being tweaked and will be some time before finalization. I think it's great they are taking lessons learned and recommendations from past rounds.

This is shaping up to be the best round yet, in my opinion.

I'm loving the new setup. It's definitely still WIP, but the issues that need adjusting will get adjusting. It's not supposed to be finalized yet, so I don't understand the anger in some posts. Obviously point out the things that need changing, but this is part of the process of them developing the mission.

 

Also, I've noticed a lot of our past recommendations being implemented. Some of them are good, and some have turned out to be not as good. But, again, the mission is being tweaked and will be some time before finalization. I think it's great they are taking lessons learned and recommendations from past rounds.

 

This is shaping up to be the best round yet, in my opinion.

word !

Yeah... +1 on the above sentiments.

 

The new respawn timers are ridiculous! FARP is closed after a fairly quick attack, helo is 10 minutes out, and the thing respawns within 5 minutes of being closed.

 

I don't understand FARPs from the standpoint of being a helo. Am I not supposed to adjust fuel or take on weapons? Where the hell is the actual FARP? I spawn in a field with nothing around.

 

I don't like the new direction this server is going and by the looks of user loads, neither do others.

I love the new system! I can't wait for the future updates. Right now spectator kills it. Im sure that will be fixed soon. Love the P51 and its duties. Love the new farps! Love the direction they are going. Can't wait to see how it all comes together when they get done with the updates.

+1 on nrgized's sentiments

This afternoon I (Huey) was working with Raptor (A10c) on a farp. Friendly troops where deployed (assault), a minute before the farp closed. Then it closed. And nothing happened (because hostile troops spawn at that point ).

So I went roaming around in my weaponless-huey, attempting to carmageddon style fly into them.. because my huey spawns in a fields om the middle of nowhere without any possibility of arming it with weapons.. And then the farp respawned at 100% killing me, and the troops.

Operation "Blue Flag" - 24/7 PvP Campaign - ROUND 9

This is shaping up to be the best round yet, in my opinion.

AGREED!

Thanks for the awesome server, team!

TJ

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