P51 not fun due to so many problems. - Page 11 - ED Forums
 


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Old 11-07-2019, 11:48 PM   #101
Snapage
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Originally Posted by Art-J View Post
As requested, my opinion/thoughts on the subject:

a) re. WEP - can't comment, as I don't have enough experience with it;

b) re crash landing - it's been a while since I last belly landed the Pony, but I don't recall my pilot ever getting killed if only I did it as slowly and smoothly as possible, flaps down, nose up, mags, mixture and fuel off. That's only in single player mode, though, I don't do MP at all so I'm not sure if this aspect is wonky over there;

c) re. guns effectiveness - when I started playing DCS 5 years ago, being warbird-oriented I immediately noted it's damage modelling was uhm... rudimentary to put it mildly, compared to other 2 WWII offerings on the market (even 3 actually if we count in the old famous one). More suited for modern missile combat than oldschool gunnery. So... I've been just playing and enjoying DCS strictly as civilian flying simulator ever since. What's the point in banging the head against the wall when you know some things are just not implemened yet? Don't use the tool for the job it's not designed for - that's my policy. I've got 2 other dedicated tools for that, published by 1C Software Company.

Of course, when the new damage model brings DCS to the competition level (or hopefully surpasses them) I'll surely start playing the game as a fully fledged combat sim. Until then, although I understand some people are desperate to try to make WWII combat work in DCS, I consider it being excercise in masochism;

d) re. loosing wings - with stick force gradient in pitch channel of 6 lbf per G (and lower with rear tank filled) plus structural failure limit of 12 G (figures as in DCS manual), Mustang is similar to Spit i.e. pilot is more than capable of tearing his wings off when pulling too hard at any high speed. It's exacerbated by the general change in philosophy of stick force modelling introduced by Yo-Yo 2 or 3 years ago, switching from virtual stick gradually "stiffening" under force method (employed by other simulators and DCS long ago) to virtual stick displacement matchinig physical stick displacement with force-limit cutoff point. Both implementation methods have their advantages and disadvantages - it's true that in "ours" loosing wings is unfortunately easier as we don't have much of a G feedback apart form the G-meter in cockpit (or nothing at all in the Spitfire) and greyout/blackout sometimes doesn't come soon enough to warn you.

I guess one has to learn by trial and error what kind of high-G turns and maneuvers are too risky in DCS, though I wouldn't mind having some more visual/audible clues about G-buildup if we can't feel it sitting in front of the computer anyway.
Cheers for the info. Very i interesting. If the high G and speed performance is accurate then I have no problem with it. Maybe cockpit rattling or some kind of audible que to give you the impression of high speeds would be realistic and helpful. Regardless it's more of a nice to have not a need to have.

I tested the WEP once yesterday and had no engine trouble so maybe it has been changed. I flew 4 minutes WEP and then at max continuous for one hour and 15 minutes without any failure. I don't know for sure though. I need to test it a few times It's very time consuming because it's so random.

The gear up landing pilot death is easily reproduced. Just try landing with gear up. Sometimes you can pull it off without pilot death but you have to be super gentle. Landing in a grass field probably shows it even better. The FW190 also kind of suffers from it but not as bad. It could possibly effect all the aircraft but because the spits, and 109s flaps keep the fuselage off the ground for the most part it isn't so obvious.

In regard to the damage model, a lot of people I know have done what you did and went to other Sims. I have tried out other SIMs to but for me after experiencing the flight models DCS has to offer it's hard to go elsewhere.
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Old 11-08-2019, 06:46 AM   #102
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12G structural limit, i think i have lost wing at 10g last time
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Old 11-08-2019, 06:58 AM   #103
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yo-Yo View Post
There are a lot of video of P-51 online that do not match your description of this plane. For example:

https://youtu.be/sWgYJX6lCcQ

P-51 guns are a bit different thing in comparison to German. They are wing mounted, and the best pattern is 200-350 m distance. If the target is closer or farther you have to remember how the projectile fly actually.

Here is a video which I show what I am talking about in regards to the effectiveness of the P51Ds guns on enemy aircraft, particularly from behind: https://youtu.be/BNLuvo7rZsY


You can see in the video there are several issues like no reduction in performance from damage and the smoke effect completely obstructs the view of the enemy plane. They only go down if you kill the pilot, shoot the engine from an large angle or shoot a part of the plane enough so that it completely comes. Because you cant really get direct hits on the engine or the pilot from behind you have to shoot them enough so the tail comes off.

Last edited by Snapage; 11-08-2019 at 07:05 AM.
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Old 11-08-2019, 07:24 AM   #104
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Originally Posted by Snapage View Post
Here is a video which I show what I am talking about in regards to the effectiveness of the P51Ds guns on enemy aircraft, particularly from behind: https://youtu.be/BNLuvo7rZsY


You can see in the video there are several issues like no reduction in performance from damage and the smoke effect completely obstructs the view of the enemy plane. They only go down if you kill the pilot, shoot the engine from an large angle or shoot a part of the plane enough so that it completely comes. Because you cant really get direct hits on the engine or the pilot from behind you have to shoot them enough so the tail comes off.
ED already said that those effect are time limited placeholders for now, and i hope that new DM will bring deterioration of flight characteristics upon taken damage
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Old 11-08-2019, 10:27 AM   #105
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ED already said that those effect are time limited placeholders for now, and i hope that new DM will bring deterioration of flight characteristics upon taken damage

I know, I have made that video to help people who don't fly the must very often a good idea of what I am talking about. Hopefully it is helpful.

Last edited by Snapage; 11-08-2019 at 10:59 AM.
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Old 11-08-2019, 02:33 PM   #106
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12G structural limit, i think i have lost wing at 10g last time
Very much possible. It's loadout dependent in Spit, so must be here as well. I just quoted the rated 8 x 1,5 safety factor figure from manual to have a ballpark number.

We also have to remember that apparently since a couple of patches ago, taking the plane close to the G limit time after time gradually "weakens" the structure. Adds more to the challenge of flying the thing!
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Old 11-08-2019, 03:55 PM   #107
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Very much possible. It's loadout dependent in Spit, so must be here as well. I just quoted the rated 8 x 1,5 safety factor figure from manual to have a ballpark number.

We also have to remember that apparently since a couple of patches ago, taking the plane close to the G limit time after time gradually "weakens" the structure. Adds more to the challenge of flying the thing!
Safety factor for WEP is 67" x 0.9 heh
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Old 11-08-2019, 08:24 PM   #108
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Snapage View Post
Here is a video which I show what I am talking about in regards to the effectiveness of the P51Ds guns on enemy aircraft, particularly from behind: https://youtu.be/BNLuvo7rZsY


You can see in the video there are several issues like no reduction in performance from damage and the smoke effect completely obstructs the view of the enemy plane. They only go down if you kill the pilot, shoot the engine from an large angle or shoot a part of the plane enough so that it completely comes. Because you cant really get direct hits on the engine or the pilot from behind you have to shoot them enough so the tail comes off.
If the 12.7 bullets hit empty fuselage or wings - what performance parameters must gone?
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Ничто так сильно не ранит мозг, как осколки стекла от разбитых розовых очков (С) Me
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Old 11-08-2019, 08:35 PM   #109
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I did some testing on my own last night in both the spit and p51 against 109.

My observations 109 has an error with damage model currently as multiple hits in engine compartment and 109 billowing black smoke it was still out performing and shooting down my ai wingman. But it can be 50/50 sometimes they lose performance other times not the case.

Observing the 109 via f2 view it was clear that many rounds hat hit engine compartment but yet still fully operational at times.

But in a separate instance in the spit I had emptied my guns taking one 109 down then working on second 109 ran out of Ammo. 109 was hit multiple times in engine area according to observation via f2. But with the spit at full combat power and roughly 500 ft I was able to outrun the 109 to a friendly airfield. So some performance degradation was apparent in this engagement.

I unfortunately did not take screenshots of the affair. But used the instant action Normandy mission in the spit for that case.

One possibility currently is that the visual damage on the 109 does not match the actual bullet termination points.?

Also take note it’s been six months since flying warbirds so airmanship and marksmanship is rusty
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Last edited by Sniper175; 11-08-2019 at 08:39 PM.
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Old 11-08-2019, 08:49 PM   #110
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If the 12.7 bullets hit empty fuselage or wings - what performance parameters must gone?
Loss of lift and/or increase of drag is what first comes to mind
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