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Old 11-05-2019, 07:13 PM   #81
MiG21bisFishbedL
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Terzi View Post
Similar thing happens with F-5E. You can catch the bullets.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uk2hGmQLp1U
Well, catching your own rounds isn't out of the question. It's happened before. It's just about the only thing anyone remembers the F-11F Tiger for:

http://www.aerofiles.com/tiger-tail.html

I should try doing this in the MiG-21 to see what results I get as well. Just for fun.

Still, the fact remains that the F-86F would have had been loaded with the M33 Ball rounds instead of the older M2 rounds. M33s came about in '51, the F-86F arrived a year later, ED.
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Old 11-06-2019, 02:16 AM   #82
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I will say this, I have been flying the F-86 too much recently with the arrival of the hornet and the falcon as well as rotating through various aircraft to try out all my new grips. So, I flew the basic intercept mission over the Caucasus terrain and found that the gunsight was very accurate out to 3,000 ft. To the best of my recall, I was never able to get the bullets on target, even in level flight, without aiming a little high until the range got very short (< 1,200 ft). That was a huge improvement for me.

Next, I flew the dogfight mission over the Persian Gulf. It is a 1 vs 1 with a MiG-15bis. The point was to try to get into a steady state turn/loop and test a rear quarter steady state tracking gunshot, which is exactly what this sight should be good for even under decent g-loads. It was hard to control the range and keep a steady load because the AI is almost always trying to force an overshoot or pull away while turning fairly hard and alternating between diving and climbing depending on speed and altitude. But, I had no problem using the sight effectively at ranges under 1,200 ft. It helped to pull just a tad of lead, but I seemed to still score hits even when holding the piper on the target.

Maybe it is just me, but the F-86F gunsight seems to be working better than ever if not 100% correctly. But there are two sides to this equation: even if the bullets are too slow, as long as the sight computes the correct drop for the bullet speed being used, it should still work fine.

So there are really three things that may need to be tested and fixed:
1) bullet velocity adjusted to reflect reality rather than using WW2 bullet parameters.
2) barrel warping effects on dispersion over time
3) gunsight correctly computing lead for the bullets being used, whether they are slow WW2 rounds or faster Korean War rounds.

The extra parameter out of my reach is how closely DCS gunsight algorithms match the computations of the real gunsights. Gunsights were mechanical computers that had many limitations. I don't want a P-51D or F-86F with a modern gunsight that perfectly predicts the bullet impact point for the specified range. I want the piper to move the way it would on the real gunsight in response to my aircraft's motion and the range input. That includes stability issues (if any) and intrinsic errors. Some gunsights were better than others, particularly when it comes to dynamic dogfights with constantly changing loads.
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Old 11-06-2019, 02:38 AM   #83
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Originally Posted by Rebel28 View Post
This statement says it all:


Everything we have shows the current settings as accurate to the type of gun though.

So no matter how many documents you supply showing the inaccuracy of the information they are using they are NOT going to look at it or change it. So stop trying to confuse them with facts.



A stubborn mindset will never be swayed with facts sorry….
They've changed it before. The ROF was abysmal in the past.
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Old 11-06-2019, 04:37 PM   #84
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Great work guys. Thanks for those docs Fishbed. I saw the NG doc a while ago but missed the M33 ball version. The 875 APIT is OK in game but the standard M2 ball is most decidedly NOT. And it's so easy to fix. Other guns use a different algorithm of circular displacement. That works fine. I am so glad the UN had air superiority over Korea. If not, we might not be allowed to talk about this today Hehe.
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Old 11-09-2019, 10:25 PM   #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Squiffy View Post
Great work guys. Thanks for those docs Fishbed. I saw the NG doc a while ago but missed the M33 ball version. The 875 APIT is OK in game but the standard M2 ball is most decidedly NOT. And it's so easy to fix. Other guns use a different algorithm of circular displacement. That works fine. I am so glad the UN had air superiority over Korea. If not, we might not be allowed to talk about this today Hehe.
It was honestly, at most, an hour of googling to find. No biggie. I just hope they actually take a look at this and make the change since the documentation clearly shows the muzzle velocity is currently inaccurate.
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