=BURNING SKIES= WWII Server

Unfair advantage?

The reason I’ve asked for coloured labels is precisely because of the current unfair advantage as held by monitor users when compared to VR pilots. I did upload a vid to demonstrate just how hard accurate aircraft identification is in VR.

As I've already said labels on the server has never had a purpose to help with identification but only with spotting.

Can I please suggest re-tasking the primary aim of the labels.

After all, I’ve seen very few people complaining about their ability to spot a target. In VR I can get by fine with spotting aerial targets, sure, it’s not easy, but that’s fine as the distances feel inline with what I’ve read from real pilots.

Identification is nothing like the same. From Geoffrey Wellums book, he mentions watching 109s estimated at 5000’ higher and clearly a little way away. That’s just not possible in VR.

IMO it’s the opposite. ID is No Problem with good communication and at the latest in VR ID at shooting distance is very much possible. I don’t think coloured labels are needed. But without any labels be it in VR or on a monitor it’s totally horrible. Everybody flies 5m above the ground trying to see anything. The fact that the mission is currently way bigger than it needs to be for the players we have doesn’t help. Even if you know where everyone is (CQ23) it’s easy to get messages about enemy and then look out the window and see nothing at all far and wide. Flying around chasing ghosts for an hour just to have 1 dogfight after which the loser quits and the server is empty again is boring as all hell.

I'm 100% with you DF! ID-ing is OK, but we need something to be able not to lose contacts that are further than 2 km. WW2 VR without labels is a complete NO GO. Unless it's an airquake server where you know where everyone is, and the bases are close. Fortunately BS is not one of these.

=BURNING SKIES= WWII Server

While I agree with some previous made points. I’m to a point to where having no labels in VR doesn’t really bother me (it’s harder for sure). I’ve compared spotting in VR to spotting in real life and the current no label setup is pretty realistic. Spotting a flight of multiple aircraft is far easier then finding a single target. However, the idea of colored targets is a no go, that’s flat out arcade and Burning Skies has always been a full real WW2 server. The label mod has always helped with spotting. I think it really helps the (4K Monitor) players and was also a help to VR. Like DF I wish we could just go back to what was there, but we have to work with what we’ve got.

I’m also kinda of perplexed by some of these post, I get spotting is difficult but I’m still seeing players stats with posts of 10+ to 20+ kills???

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I’ve compared spotting in VR to spotting in real life and the current no label setup is pretty realistic. Pro

woh ho ho...completely disagree with that one. flying pretty much every day, and when its about spotting ww2 aircraft in dcs with the rift without labels, i can guarantee you that spotting planes of similar size in real life works way better. not only keeping sight of an already spotted aircraft but also the distances where you can spot them are bigger.

whats really noticeable for me though is, that in real life i tend to spot single props by accident at approxiamtely double the distance than i usually do in the rift when i dont know where or if to expect another aircraft in the vicinity.

for not using labels on the server...i think its a mistake, even with the current bug. the mission is way too big for the user base, and gets horribly boring when repeatable 1hour flights tend to end in nothing but a sightseeing tour.

I think the mission is fine, I actually liked the previous one better. I don’t find the mission to be to big at all, I have no problem finding guys and engaging. It seems like some of you just want fields the be 20nm apart so you can fly straight at each other and scrap (ala air quake). Talk about boring and not having a purpose! There’s plenty of others sims that do that, DCS doesn’t have to be one of them.

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I have no problem finding guys and engaging.

i doubt that tbh. but even if YOU have no problems, i think the majority has.

=BURNING SKIES= WWII Server

i doubt that tbh. but even if YOU have no problems, i think the majority has.

Really??? I’m ranked in the top 10 in the championships and finished ranked 10th last month with no labels. Hum... how was that possible???

I do agree, some have more issues then others, but there are plenty of guys with very high kill numbers. How is it they find guys to engage?

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There is currently 1 server in DCS. 1!

Lets not kid ourselves and say that BS is a full mission server like WOL in the other sim or like the campaign missions on the Case Blue server when that was still up. Sure there are a few ground targets, but IMO they almost seem like more of an afterthought to me.

While making a larger more "realistic" big picture mission might be possible currently in DCS under perfect circumstances, but even then there are nowhere near enough players to make flying something like that fun, let alone the variety of aircraft (something other than fighters) that we see in other sims to really make it happen. And thats ignoring the fact that even placing the AI assets available in the sim now causes all sorts of performance problems and can make the game unplayable.

No matter how much people want it to be something different, BS is and always has been airquake/dogfight server, and I really don't see it changing any time soon. It doesn't need to be ridiculously close (like the Novo-Anapa map, which was good with maybe 5-10 people online but with 20 it became base-rape-athon) but I think the previous mission (the coastal one on Normandy) was more or less the optimal distance. On the current mission its ok when there are a decent number of players online as everything converges at CQ23 but with less players I've had plenty of flights just toodling around the map only to find someone to attack right as I run out of fuel.

Don't get me wrong, everybody is free to enjoy what they like and play the way they want, but at the moment BS is the only option for MP WWII in DCS. You say a dogfight server is boring and has no purpose, thats fine. For me, I like dogfighting, I want to shoot down planes, that is the purpose. I'd fly on a duel server if there was one, although I definitely prefer what BS and previously ACG also was where there is a little more room for tactics and team flying as well. You say you don't want airfields 20nm apart, I say I don't want to chase scaredy cats who fly pretty formations at 25000 ft and run away to hide in the flak at the first sight of a German all night. If this was IL2 thats fine, we can go fly on the server that fits what we like, but its not.

Really??? I’m ranked in the top 10 in the championships and finished ranked 10th last month with no labels. Hum... how was that possible???

 

I do agree, some have more issues then others, but there are plenty of guys with very high kill numbers. How is it they find guys to engage?

 

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congrats on the top 10 ranking :) how many kills in how many hours? how many hours of nothing happening for those achieved kills? sure...sooner or later you will run into an enemy aircraft. but some people including me, feel that there is too much time involved now searching for action than actual having action. and that is due to the mission design plus the bad spotting in dcs.

i would love to have an acceptable spotting system in dcs so that there was no need for labels at all, but unfortunately the spotting problem in dcs is as old as dcs itself, and it seems the devs are either unwilling or unable to solve it. so labels are the only option imo, even if they have their own problems, like beeing visible through surfaces.

That would have been 11 kills in 5hrs of flight time so roughly 2 per flight hour.

Don’t get me wrong, I liked the label mod. It was way easier, I would like to have it back but sense we don’t have it we have to adapt. I’m sure Eekz is working hard to come up with something but ED is working against him with their constant updates and changes.

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You ALL want 'realistic' options.. How in the world are these 'seen through canopy' labels realistic?!? If you want better spotting just use a CRT monitor with 640x480 resolution. Complaining about spotting a few pixels when having a 4K monitor or VR is just.. lame.

vanilla spotting isnt realistic either and VR has less resolution and so its easier to spot stuff in my opinion... label mods are a tradeoff for better playability

Why can't I see the server Up in my DCS 2.5 Open Beta ?

Today I even installed the Stable version in parallel but still no WW2 servers when I go MP ?

Sorry ,but without labels spotting is impossible in VR, and it's unplayable. I circled above the enemy target at 6k feet, got the message that enemy planes were spotted, couldn't see a thing... They also pop out of existence while I'm looking at them.

It is impossible even You use display with resolution 1920*1200 and some AA..

I see totally nothing against ground and against dark sky is the same.

+2

to hell with the realism dogma! We are here to have fun. And I'm not having fun on BS because I cannot spot a bandit.

to hell with the realism dogma! We are here to have fun. And I'm not having fun on BS because I cannot spot a bandit.

+1

In this question realism and fun are on the same side. I fly small planes IRL and they're much easier to spot than in DCS without the label mod. For those who complain about labels being visible through the airframe: if the label mod is subtle enough, there is no way you can follow it looking through the airframe in VR.

completely agree..flying single and twin engines almost every day, and spotting such sized aircraft in real life is way easier than in dcs....dcs is horribly bad now with spotting, and nothing to do with realism. at least when its about the ww2 birds.

not having labels is killing the ww2 online community i think. you see already the current drop in player numbers which makes the problem even worse. of course, as customers we should insist on getting a realistic spotting system from the devs, to not have to rely on labels, but for now there is no way around them unfortunately imo.

what is the latest official statement on this matter, is it been worked on?

At game versions lower than 2.5.3.22+ labels settings enforcement in multiplayer is broken. On the other hand they are compatible with 2.5.3.22+ versions in multiplayer. That results into the situation that if labels are enabled on the server people with 2.5.3.22+ see labels as forced by the mission and people with versions lower than 2.5.3.22+ see labels as they look by default.

That is the reason labels will be disabled for a moment when older versions with broken labels enforcement will be incompatible in multiplayer with latest version.

Current situation is not because of so called realism dogma. It's purely a technical issue. Once we'll be able to provide equal labels settings for everyone - labels'll be back.