Realistic SAM Placement In The Caucasus

Like the title says, what and where are the current SAMs in the Caucasus?

Look around on the internets for google earth kmz files. The placement of these are pretty well documented, and you'll find lots of interesting map representations.

Here's a good one that has caucasus and persian gulf as well as others.

Rename it to .kmz.

samsite.zip

Great file fargo007, thank you :thumbup:

I went trough https://www.ww2.dk/new/pvo/pvo.htm (and various Wiki pages) for Soviet SAM locations in the 1962 to 1988 period, for the Caucasus region.

The above site has coordinates for their location, and what type they were, so I placed triggers.

'Yellow' are the various SAM sites

'Red' Radio Technical are Early Warning sites.

'Black' are facilities of 'interest', potential strike targets if you like. Not actual positions, I just put them where a static building would fit, but the city is correct, or as close to as I could get.

'White' is given airbase and units that were active there. 171st at Gudauta didnt have MiG-21 though (had Su-15), but for gameplay purpose.

Soviet template.miz

Thanks, I'm going to check your file out too!

Thanks a whole lot! This is great! Do you have anything more modern, like with SA-10/11s?

Thanks a whole lot! This is great! Do you have anything more modern, like with SA-10/11s?

Going by fargo007's file, then they had a S-300 up at Anapa until 2003, and one more south of Gelendzhik. Also saw that on the site I link too, that some of the SA-5 sites had been replaced with S-300. So I would and am using S-300's where they had SA-5's back in the day. I just reuse these old sites for modern stuff, and only place where needed. So If Krymsk is active/used, then I place a SA-11 site on one of those old locations that fit etc.

Cant remember where I saw it, but that showed that now it was just a single S-400 site in the Anapa area, and another one on Crimea.

The website is very cool indeed. On the placing of SAMs I would note that the placement of non-static SAMs should follow a basic set of rules. First, they are in the open with a clear field of view. Not too high as missiles rarely can fire down!

Light SAMs or SHORAD are used close to or own key targets such airfields and fixed supply depots etc. Mobile sites will cover targets such as FOBs and HQs with some riding forward with the combat units.

SAMs are and expensive and limited asset so don't over do it.

The website is very cool indeed. On the placing of SAMs I would note that the placement of non-static SAMs should follow a basic set of rules. First, they are in the open with a clear field of view. Not too high as missiles rarely can fire down!

 

Light SAMs or SHORAD are used close to or own key targets such airfields and fixed supply depots etc. Mobile sites will cover targets such as FOBs and HQs with some riding forward with the combat units.

 

SAMs are and expensive and limited asset so don't over do it.

Any idea how mobile their S-300/400, SA-11 and SA-6 actually are? They are all vehicles, but Ive always wondered how fast would they be able to change location and be ready in the new location, transit time aside.

And regarding SAM's being expensive. Interesting to see how their doctrine changed over the time, where Soviet in the beginning, were basically making a long line of SA-2 sites along their borders. This then slowly changed into only protecting major cities housing given military assets. A mix of this can be seen in the mission file I attached further up, I think. Feels like a bit of both era's, where Poti area is the old border defense, Novo is area based, and Tbilisi to a high degree too -they really wanted to protect all the training facilities they had there, with a ring around Tbilisi.

Where today is 'a few' in comparison S-400 sites (sure they cover a huge area), and probably SA-11 in close to the assets, as jester mentions. And also, far fewer airbases compared to the cold war era, and I guess far fewer bases of everything compared to then, making it possible to only have SAM coverage in far fewer key places.

Guessing it all boils down to attack doctrines of the enemy, where the early days of the cold war was all about swarms of bombers saturating the skies, high level. That then changed to low level bombers and strikers. And now I guess its all about pinpoint strikes with primarily cruise missiles followed up by many small groups of strikers with precision guided stuff, and only later when the air is more safe, bombers?

Thanks, great info, guys!

Any idea how mobile their S-300/400, SA-11 and SA-6 actually are? They are all vehicles, but Ive always wondered how fast would they be able to change location and be ready in the new location, transit time aside.

No idea for the SA-300/400 but, IIRC, the SA-6 is ready to move 15 minutes after systems shutdown. The SA-11 is ready in 5 minutes. Unfortunately, the site I used to rely on for this sort of info is now defunct.

Another changing situation with RF SAM coverage in recent years has been far more Russian airspace opened to general worldwide commercial aviation. SEA/PacRim operators fly around the Caucasus map region where 15yrs ago they'd have been shot down without warning since the big red no fly zone on commercial maps was regarded as warning enough and anything which ignored it was simply considered a spy plane no matter what anyone says. This includes the Kuban, Azov and anything north of the Caucasus, but now Asian airbuses are all over the place shuttling tourists from India to the UK no problem, no SAM shots...until they get near the Ukraine border but you can't have everything and that was local militants anyway (ahem).

Ostensibly the Russians have greatly reduced coverage, probably not as much for expense (SAMs are still cheaper than squadrons), but for open airspace for foreign commercial aviation, something you'd get a SAM up the tailpipe for not so long ago being they were everywhere and Russians are really trigger happy, they tend to cite reasons like "negative energy" for suspecting enemy activity and I'm honestly not sure if they're joking or not when they say that.

We're all friends now, not as many SAMs, that's all.