Change Wording: "Set SPI Generator" instead of "Make SPI" - Page 16 - ED Forums
 


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Old 09-14-2019, 01:01 AM   #151
Dagger71
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Originally Posted by Yurgon View Post
The concept (TGP LOS, ground intersection) is pretty clear, there's nothing wrong with that, and the idea of putting an obstruction in front of the TGP sounds like a good thought experiment in order to realize that it's all about measuring angles (caveat: unless the laser is firing - another great thought experiment).

I believe no one in this thread ever said otherwise. I believe Shagrat knew this before you even purchased the A-10C.

No there has been an immense amount of confusion regarding this. It's a lot more complicated than I can explain on a game forum without a massive amount of studying the subject again. Even yourself in [post #144] was confused. Maybe someone with a bit more recent hands on experience can do it better than me.





I say Shagrat evolve in his understanding once I made the statement about the SPI actually only being a snapshot of the output from the sensor.



So when I say the TGP SPI is contantly calculated... technically this isn't completely true. The LOS was already calculated and when one press make SPI, it takes a snapshot of this point. As the LOS moves, it gets updated and the SPI takes this new dataset.


The CDU does not know what any SOI was looking at .01 seconds ago, but when you "create a SPI" it will save this point and what sensor created it until you slew to a new position, generate a new SPI, the engines are shut off or if some severe damage happens/



But again I think this is more advanced SPI understanding that will lead to probably about 10 more pages of back and forth so I don't think we should really get into it.

Last edited by Dagger71; 09-14-2019 at 01:08 AM.
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Old 09-14-2019, 07:25 AM   #152
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Originally Posted by Dagger71 View Post
But the SPI IS in fact a saved 3d point "in a database or similar."



When TGP is SOI and not generating (making SPI), nothing you do with it is recorded on any level.



The moment you do TMS FWD LONG, onboard sensors and processors create the SPI ( a large amount of calculations in a microseconds) that the LOS points to on the ground. When the TGP slews, those calculations are redone and continue to get done until you stop moving the SPI, then it remains a saved point. Like mentioned before it is a snapshot.





Remember what I mentioned about the TGP pod glass aperture could be covered up in black tape and it will still be precise since the lightening pod nor any sensor does not actually use the video to generate the SPI. It is there for visual cue.



When switching from say TGP LOS SPI generator to the HUD TDC as SPI, it is actually a NEW and completely different set of calculations used to determine the SPI.





This calculation of SPI is not something that even could have existed 40 years ago.
The exact thing that happens if you press TMS forward long the first time after start-up is, that the new sensor you selected (SOI) is UPDATING the coordinates of the SPI from the current STEERPOINT which is the default SPI after the systems have powered up and we have a working CDU. As per both manuals "there is always a SPI".
It has been stored in the Data-Cartridge and transferred to the CDU. TMS forward long selects the Sensor Of Interest to designate and constantly update a point it is looking at and have the CICU(?) calculate the new coordinates or hook a symbol on the TAD and transfer these coordinates as current SPI.
I know this sounds like nitpicking, but it helps to understand that there is in fact a SPI available without you ever touching the TMS hat switch. That you always have a SPI coordinate from the start and that TMS forward long only switches the source of the coordinates.
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Old 09-14-2019, 07:48 AM   #153
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Originally Posted by Dagger71 View Post
No there has been an immense amount of confusion regarding this. It's a lot more complicated than I can explain on a game forum without a massive amount of studying the subject again. Even yourself in [post #144] was confused. Maybe someone with a bit more recent hands on experience can do it better than me.





I say Shagrat evolve in his understanding once I made the statement about the SPI actually only being a snapshot of the output from the sensor.



So when I say the TGP SPI is contantly calculated... technically this isn't completely true. The LOS was already calculated and when one press make SPI, it takes a snapshot of this point. As the LOS moves, it gets updated and the SPI takes this new dataset.


The CDU does not know what any SOI was looking at .01 seconds ago, but when you "create a SPI" it will save this point and what sensor created it until you slew to a new position, generate a new SPI, the engines are shut off or if some severe damage happens/



But again I think this is more advanced SPI understanding that will lead to probably about 10 more pages of back and forth so I don't think we should really get into it.
Sorry, to say, but actually I knew this from post one. I even know the ominous air Force manual for a couple years. I simply don't see it is relevant for the exact wording in a game manual.
All this has been discussed and explained with the help of people like Eddy, Snoopy, etc. about a decade ago, during the Beta phase and shortly after.
I had to go much, much more into details to discuss a simple matter of wording, because you assumed that "not prefering the AirForce manual term 'Make SPI' " indicates, we don't understand the systems involved and concept of SOI and SPI.
The only thing that helped me through this ordeal was posts like the ones from Shimmergloom667 and Kid1820, that proved this is still an issue and we could help someone to understand the details through our discussion.
I am aware you have very deep knowledge of the system and how this works and since it helped and hopefully still helps people I'm fine with the whole discussion, but the actual point was simply to make a little change in words, from an easy misunderstood two words to something not so easy to misunderstand that also references one of two terms used later in the DCS manual to describe the details...
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Old 09-14-2019, 07:54 PM   #154
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Originally Posted by Shimmergloom667 View Post
It's funny enough, though - also I learned something valuable, since I didn't fully understand I don't have to "set SPI" everytime I slew my TGP around.

So for me, "set SPI generator" was really enlightening and helped me in my operations. I certainly find that to be more precise than just "make SPI".
That alone makes this whole discussion worth it. Thank you.
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Old 09-16-2019, 07:04 AM   #155
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I have to thank you guys - at some points the manual / training missions really could use a bit more precision in their descriptions. I mean, it's all certainly very useable, but there's always room for improvement.
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