DCS: MiG-23MLA by RAZBAM

The problem I have is not the manuals or charts, its how people communicate...

I am a game developer myself and I know how much effort does such software cost. Nevertheless there are certain definitions of done for a certain product niche. What is inconstructive with criticizing a critical system which is clearly and obviously not done yet, while it is stated that the release is scheduled this month and its going to be final, which leads to zero chance at a RP-5 simulation which is first gen tech, and the guys are sharping their teeth at a 3+ gen with Tomcat level of complexity. I don't want anyone hurt, I want people to achieve what they should and be proud of themselves.

So:

Pretty please, dear devs, make a plausible radar simulation with a plausible depiction of its indication. Thank you in advance!

People want news, and as soon as they see WIP footage they trash :(

That really looks just like a WIP problem. It comes down to how it is programmed. Radar screen reflects a position of an object. For it to work properly, you have to not only record the position (they already got that part) but also display it at the right moment and "freeze" it until it fades out. Not to mention a plane will give you multiple returns (which was used to verify size of target) dependent on its size. I have seen an airliner give iirc 5 returns on RP-21, I'll see if I can find the footage. Both work roughly the same way with non-stabilized radar dish; slight difference being that one sweep in RP-1/2/5 is for upper sector, one for lower. (Note that the lower sector could be blinded for low-level operations, both sweeps are done in the same direction - unlike with RP-21/22 - and that both sweeps will see the target that is on level with the aircraft boresight - again, it's not stabilized.)

 

 

Go to 2:10; RP-1 radar screen would look the same.

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Yeah I think the general radar modeling in DCS needs work. The Mig-21 radar "ish" looks like this, I'd expect similar for the 19. The mig21 gets ground clutter problems too so I imagine it would look similar depending on how its all stabilized and how the various "filters" and signal processing worked between the two different systems.

In general, the "realism" people here need a reality check IMO. At best DCS is close "ish" within the limits of the game code. Its one thing having to push the right buttons in the right order to startup a jet, and I think generally thats attainable in DCS. Getting into complex systems modeling, and then advanced radar physics modeling in real time, LOL nope... At best you get something that "looks" right or is some first order approximation of the real thing, be that the flight models, system models, and especially radar models. But despite this its the best thing going when it comes to realism and combat flight sims.

Fully agreed, I am tired of all the toxic comments by folks against RAZBAM.

 

Certainly the radar can be improved by redoing the ground clutter, but it won't make much difference in how you use it. Moreover there is no ground radar code for 3rd parties as far as I know and all solutions that have been brought by other developers in AG, like Heatblur needed a lot of time to bring the Viggen's radar up to today standard (some two years) and it is still only a workaround. I am sure that we will see improvements from RAZBAM and even if not, I consider it a minor thing which will not spoil my experience of using Mig-19P.

 

I am thankful that they are doing this wonderful aircraft as today the only developer doing Eastern aircraft. If you cannot live without full ground clutter simulation, which when done properly would eat performance of your PC than do not buy Mig-19 or anything from RAZBAM, but please refrain from toxic and bashing comments, which only demotivate and create bad atmosphere in this very small community. Just my two cents.

I totally agree with you.

I'm no expert on radar issues but I assume that the MiG-19 (and this is where this whole 'debate' started) didn't have a radar that was providing a ground map picture. Ground returns are just that - ground clutter. I guess the irritation was that in the video the ground clutter was static where it probably should show some dynamic variation - relax guys, I think RAZBAM will get this right, it shouldn't be too hard to do. No need to program a ground-mapping radar like the Viggen has. Also not for the MiG-23, right?

You may always have some acecombat. DCS is not about fancy models or colorful liveries. Here we want boring things like charts and real manuals being applicable.

None of these aircraft are 100% accurate. Some of them are close, but concessions are always made. As for the fuss about radar, ALL the radars, except the Viggen and F-14 are very abstract and simple. There are plans to overhaul it, but many of tge devs are waiting on ED to finish implementing tech before they can use it. I'd also be slow to judge WiP shots as being 100% indicative of the final product.

What ground clutter are these people expecting to be modelled on a Mig-23 HUD?

I don't know... it's a doppler-filtered radar after all...

Will be nice to have the Mig-23. Beautiful looking airplane that is for sure. I like these old Soviet birds. Hopefully we see the Mig-19 next week too :)

What ground clutter are these people expecting to be modelled on a Mig-23 HUD?

I think they are talking about the mig19 radar. And the ground clutter being not well modeled based on 1 early release vid. That being said, the mig23 radar would be overall more complicated in terms of modes/capabilities.

None of these aircraft are 100% accurate. Some of them are close, but concessions are always made. As for the fuss about radar, ALL the radars, except the Viggen and F-14 are very abstract and simple. There are plans to overhaul it, but many of tge devs are waiting on ED to finish implementing tech before they can use it. I'd also be slow to judge WiP shots as being 100% indicative of the final product.

MiG-21, F/A-18C, Skyhawk have plausible radars. Nobody said "Hey guys we have a picture of the ground as a placeholder, but procedural clutter is inbound", so you have the comments.

With MiG-23 I expect it to demand the user to tune it to engagement geometry and ECM situation(at least to the level of MiG-21) to see the target. I expect to use real manual and see the sim behaving somehow related to it.

Looks like there is a new ground return model in redkites new vid. Looks like mig21.

Why are you folks still talking about the Mig-19 radar in the Mig-23 thread? Or why are some people moaning about the Mig-19 radar? It's both different and not even released. Stick to Mig-23, stop shooting stuff down before it's airborne.

Why are you folks still talking about the Mig-19 radar in the Mig-23 thread? Or why are some people moaning about the Mig-19 radar? It's both different and not even released. Stick to Mig-23, stop shooting stuff down before it's airborne.

Any word on when we can expect to see more MIG-23 progress (pics/videos)?

Any word on when we can expect to see more MIG-23 progress (pics/videos)?

As far as I know, Razbam said they would start work on MiG-23 after MiG-19 release.

So, what radar is planned? H003 or H008?

As far as I know, Razbam said they would start work on MiG-23 after MiG-19 release.

They started before. Its a modeling process.The rest Team must to do something.... ;)

So, what radar is planned? H003 or H008?

N008 would make it MLD, wouldn't it?

Id rather have the MLD, just because it will be a bit more competitive to blue air. Otherwise the MLA was more common.

Id rather have the MLD, just because it will be a bit more competitive to blue air. Otherwise the MLA was more common.

MLA it is

https://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=3536448&postcount=2

Yeah i figured it was the MLA. We need more 60s n 70s blue planes for target practice tho. Ai or otherwise.

Yeah i figured it was the MLA. We need more 60s n 70s blue planes for target practice tho. Ai or otherwise.

https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=227482&page=7 for example. Hope it will be finished. And we have community Skyhawk now! With middle east map in the making I see a good ecosystem for the MiG-23. Hope for Angola someday.

This will make some interesting fights Mig-23 vs F-14 gulf of sydra replay :D

Boy does that thing look sexy or what cant wait instant buy for me !!!

They started before. Its a modeling process.The rest Team must to do something.... ;)

 

Looks awesome! Thanks for sharing.

This will make some interesting fights Mig-23 vs F-14 gulf of sydra replay :D

Boy does that thing look sexy or what cant wait instant buy for me !!!

Well, that won't be real/fair, the MLA was way better than what the Libyans were flying.

Though I find a pretty serious disconnect between their plans for the Falklands and the advertised plane set.