Ignoring warnings about pitot heat / engine anti ice etc

Full stop? What does that mean?

Full stop? What does that mean?

.

.

He already put . at the end of the sentence.

He already put . at the end of the sentence.

Ever heard of emphasis?

Why would he emphasise a full stop? Completely clueless. :unsure:

Nevermind, maybe it's a language thing. E.g. in my language such an emphasis isn't uncommon (although usually spoken).

Ignoring warnings about pitot heat / engine anti ice etc

So no one knows does engine anti ice affect engine performance?

Are you asking in the sim or real life? Or both?

No. No. And no.

How do I know? Both of all the performance graphs and emergency procedures do not include any penalty when switching the Engine Anti-ice on.

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Asking both. Tnx for the answer.

Surprisingly, there isn’t even limitations to its operation. I seriously question it, but you could have it switched on +40 Celsius.

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How do I know? Both of all the performance graphs and emergency procedures do not include any penalty when switching the Engine Anti-ice on.

I find that very difficult to believe. The energy has to come from somewhere.

Go read it yourself. I looked in the whole performance section of NATOPS. Looked at the Emergency procedure for INLET ICE caution. Looked at the limitations section for anything mentioning engine anti ice. Please provide factual information if you have it, otherwise there is no performance impact.

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I believe you that you couldn't find anything. That doesn't prove anything though. Lack of evidence for A does not make B true.

If nothing's documented, it might be because the effect isn't significant. You can't magic up energy though, that heat has to come from somewhere (in this case, greater demand on bleed air).

It'd be nice if you could "magic up" energy though, wouldn't it? Things like perpetual motion and an end to global warming would be possible, to name but two.

Damn that Conservation of Energy law. ;)

Ignoring warnings about pitot heat / engine anti ice etc

I believe you that you couldn't find anything. That doesn't prove anything though. Lack of evidence for A does not make B true.

 

If nothing's documented, it might be because the effect isn't significant. You can't magic up energy though, that heat has to come from somewhere (in this case, greater demand on bleed air).

Oh okay. So now we are talking semantics.

If there was a performance hit, it would be documented. That would not make sense to create graphs specifically detailing performance values and just leave out something that would degrade it. Especially if it’s even critical like, during takeoff? Come on man. Go get factual data.

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You said there was no performance hit. The burden of proof is on you to back that claim up. "I didn't find anything that proves me wrong, so I must be right" is at best misleading.

Ignoring warnings about pitot heat / engine anti ice etc

You said there was no performance hit. The burden of proof is on you to back that claim up. "I didn't find anything that proves me wrong, so I must be right" is at best misleading.

Haha. Right. A US Navy document, written in conjunction with Boeing/McDonnell Douglas, must be wrong because you think it is. Just like global warming right? That makes sense.

Unless you have factual data, like I said, you are making claims without proof. I said it once, and I’ll say it again. There are no corrections for Anti-ice ON in ANY performance chart, there is nothing detailing engine performance degradation anywhere. Unless you can find text that states it to be true from a solid, reliable source, you have no proof. I want facts, not opinions.

Please...feel free to find it in the NATOPS yourself. Oh....you’ve looked too? Well. Keep finding those facts to back up your claim.

Just checked F-14B NATOPS for cold weather operations, it says to reference the performance manual for appropriate takeoff distance for operating in snow/slush covered runways. It even has this note and I quote:

“Because of its adverse effects on engine performance, the engine anti-icing system should be used only when icing conditions exist or are anticipated.”

F-18, same section, says nothing about checking any performance charts. Gee, I wonder why? No notes about degraded performance. Hmmmmm....

Also, the functional checks on F-18 for testing the engine anti-ice do not mention any change in EGT or RPM at idle. All it says is to verify the heat annunciation comes on, if not retest at 70% RPM. The test position just verifies the INLET ICE caution illuminates. (My guess, testing the ice detector) Nothing again about degraded thrust or changing engine parameters.

Bye Felicia.

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I look forward to seeing your design for a perpetual motion machine.

Can this thread be closed? It is completely useless. Inlet icing is not simulated in DCS. There is a longstanding bug that causes the sensor to go off in conditions when icing would never occur. Ignore it. It doesn't matter. Of course there is some minimal performance impact in real life due to use of bleed air, but it is irrelevant and not modeled in DCS.

Can this thread be closed? It is completely useless. Inlet icing is not simulated in DCS.

It's not simulated for the F/A-18, the Ka-50 and Mi-8 will experience icing conditions and the corresponding consequences. Sorry but I had to clear that.

Now I'm wondering, in the F-18 are the inlets electrically heated, or bleed air heated? Just curious.

Now I'm wondering, in the F-18 are the inlets electrically heated, or bleed air heated? Just curious.

I believe that Wags said in one of his Hornet videos (early ones) that there were heaters in the engine intakes themselves. Would say electric. NATOPS manual didn't specify in regards to the type of heater (or that I could find at least).

I agree with some others, it's not modeled in DCS - this multi page thread is pretty much just en sighting banter, theories, and the occasional flame posts.

Cheers,

Don

I believe that Wags said in one of his Hornet videos (early ones) that there were heaters in the engine intakes themselves. Would say electric. NATOPS manual didn't specify in regards to the type of heater (or that I could find at least).

 

 

I agree with some others, it's not modeled in DCS - this multi page thread is pretty much just en sighting banter, theories, and the occasional flame posts.

 

 

Cheers,

 

Don

Thanks. Just got me thinking since the one poster said he didn't see any impact from looking at the manuals, and, if it is indeed electric, that that could be a reason. (Also agree about it not being modeled. Just got my brain wheels turning!)

Ignoring warnings about pitot heat / engine anti ice etc

A separate engine bleed air system, internal to the engine and from

a different compressor stage than the aircraft bleed air, is used for engine anti-ice.

You guys need to read the book. From NATOPS F-18.

For what it’s worth, this isn’t an airliner, this isn’t a Vietnam-era bird. Maybe the engine manufacture found out a way to minimize the impacts to zero. You all are looking for a there, but there isn’t anything remotely documented to support your assumptions. Zero performance impact. Period.

I’m done.

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A separate engine bleed air system, internal to the engine and from

a different compressor stage than the aircraft bleed air, is used for engine anti-ice.

 

You guys need to read the book. From NATOPS F-18.

 

 

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Well there you go. :thumbup:

A separate engine bleed air system, internal to the engine and from

a different compressor stage than the aircraft bleed air, is used for engine anti-ice.

 

You guys need to read the book. From NATOPS F-18.

 

For what it’s worth, this isn’t an airliner, this isn’t a Vietnam-era bird. Maybe the engine manufacture found out a way to minimize the impacts to zero. You all are looking for a there, but there isn’t anything remotely documented to support your assumptions. Zero performance impact. Period.

 

I’m done.

 

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Good job. I searched for ice, temperature and anti-ice in the .pdf but wasn't going to spend any real effort for something that doesn't matter.

Cheers,

Don