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Old 10-24-2019, 11:13 PM   #321
NineLine
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Originally Posted by Hummingbird View Post
I don't think modelling the Me262 should be such a difficult task, esp. since we've got flying examples around today. The only caveat is the engines, but IIRC even an original Jumo 004 is being restored to full working order but with the heat resistant metals the German wanted to use but didn't have back then. Definitely the most interesting of the WW2 projects still going for ED, albeit I must admit the Mosquito has be intrigued, even if I know I don't see its use in DCS - atleast the 262 can fight other fighters, the Mosquito not so much.
I think flying examples are great to an extent, but honestly probably a very small part. As far as documentation, I think there is a ton of it if you know where to go looking for it, and this means well beyond Google. The rocket and Jet program was probably the most important data the Allies wanted to take out of Germany at the end of the war, and just in my own search, there seems to be a ton of stuff out there for wind tunnel testing, and other such reports.
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Old 10-25-2019, 02:37 AM   #322
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Flying examples is almost certainly a complete non-factor. It'd teach you nothing of any particular value. Nobody who owns an exotic aircraft is going to let you fly it to dangerous limits, and any useful tech data will be in text form.
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Old 10-25-2019, 04:58 AM   #323
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On the other hand, when there was the interview with Nick Grey, this was the response.

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Q. 1. How important is it to have access to real aircraft when working together with ED on developing new WWII modules?¬ – xvii-Dietrich

A. Very. Sadly if you haven’t flown them, guess what….
Ref: https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=207133
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Old 10-25-2019, 07:06 AM   #324
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I'd say pretty safely they're not arranging flights for the coders in miscellaneous warbirds of the past and present (the cost and impractability for one), and even if they were they wouldn't be edge of envelope ''test flights''. So, they're interviewing people who flew them in the past. There aren't any two-seat versions of some of these, yet they're coding them anyway, etc.

There will come a time when there are no ''former pilots'' to interview, too. On that note, wouldn't it be interesting if DCS one day became a reference point for future coders due to interaction with former pilots long gone?

I mean, you can get some nuance of behavior by being in it, but your time with say, a F-15 or MiG-29 even if you could get your hands on one is going to be extremely limited. So, anyway you look at it, it's a luxury opportunity. They're not racking up dozens/hundreds of hours in an A-10 they rented, you know?
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Old 10-25-2019, 07:50 AM   #325
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Originally Posted by xvii-Dietrich View Post
On the other hand, when there was the interview with Nick Grey, this was the response.


Ref: https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=207133
Yup, we sure lean on his experience as well, but as stated, they are not pushing those aircraft to their limits anymore, so that is where all the other research comes in.
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Old 10-25-2019, 09:58 AM   #326
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ED could get in contact with https://www.flugmuseum-messerschmitt.de (Well I hope they are already) I can offer my help for translation and help in communication (english-german)
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AFAIK Groove from ED already is in contact with all possible sources (especially the German ones ). If you want to help with translation PM him.
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Old 10-26-2019, 09:40 AM   #327
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They may be flying, but do they have original engines / weight distribution, and is someone prepared to let E.D. put one in a wind tunnel / fly one hard to get some performance data.

If not - it makes the model & textures easy, but not much more...
Weight distribution is the exact same as the original thanks to a very smart weighted nacelle casing for the CJ610 engines. The the difference is in the thrust available ofcourse, but they can easily simulate Jumo 004B performance by simply throttling only to 8.8 kN thrust.
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Old 10-26-2019, 10:10 AM   #328
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Originally Posted by xvii-Dietrich View Post
On the other hand, when there was the interview with Nick Grey, this was the response.


Ref: https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=207133
Please do not mix the data that is used to recreate flying characteristics of the plane - drag polars, stability and controllability charts, moments of inertia, weight and balance, etc. It's a basic and fundamental source that allows to create physical model as close to the real plane as it's possible. If we have lack of this data we have to use CFD but, of course, checking how this results matches real data where they coincide.

The model is numerical and it needs a lot of numbers to be properly tuned. The more exact data - the better.

Pilots interviews are very important at the final polishing stage of the development to recreate the details of the aircraft behaviour in dynamics making every plane with its distinctive features. Mostly FEELING of the airplane. And their feedback or information must be again converted into numbers, and this is the final art of tuning.

For example, none of the documents, even containing certain description, can not replace pilot's view for power-on reaction, accelarated stall, 1g-stall, as well as, for example, how fast oil and coolant temperatures rise during warming up at 25C and 1000 rpm.
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