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Which Tornado do you want?


CyMPAK

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I'm not talking about inovation. I'm talking about the task this aircraft was designed for and that's the same as for the AJS37. You think the tornado is a less interesting airframe? Ok - that's your opinion no problem but absolutely not mine ;).

 

And which aircraft are you talking about? Buccaneer? Javelin (appart from it's fighter role)? Hunter? Thud? Su-17? I'm just curious ;)

 

Cool only opinions going around here, yes I think the viggen is the most interesting of the lot. The SU24 is the only other that spikes my interest since we don’t have a Russian high fidelity striker.

I said earlier tornado versions not other airframes.

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Cool only opinions going around here,

Of course..... we are talking about personal preferences and opinions - look at the title of this thread.....

I said earlier tornado versions not other airframes.

You said "one of the earlier versions" which can mean everything.

But ok - i agree. I would also like to see an earlier version of the tornado. But i would be happy with a Gr.4 too. The Tornado is one of my all time favorites. If it's not yours, ok. I'm for example not interested in a Su-24 at all. That's it ;)

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The Viggen was the only strike aircraft of the time to perform the task with a single pilot, the first with a nav computer and a hud. Its arguably the best aircraft of its time. It can do what the tornado, F111 and SU24 did with single crew, land on a highway and do it again in half an hour. Far from an example of a less interesting airframe that’s simply nice to have.

 

True. I like the Viggen as well. But you are missing a good point here.

 

The Viggen was build to defend Sweden. If you are familiar with aircraft design, you're going to see that pretty quick.

You need a quick turn-around time if the enemy is on your territory. But it's not designed to strike deeper into enemy territory.

 

One crew member is barely enough to perform a 100% accurate strike.

You got 9 waypoints, you drop all bombs at once and you have to land if you need fuel, although you can land in the woods.

The weapon system only allows for certain combinations.

 

The Tornado is also capable of landing at a road base, only with less good wheel brakes.

The F-111 is a strategic strike platform, as is the Tornado. (at least the UK ones with more than 5000 kg of internal fuel) per definition.

 

I wish you good luck of performing a strike on an outpost, bad weather, night, 500 miles out, alone in the 'pit. You simply need two people for that.

I see the Viggen as kind of a 'strike-interceptor'. The others are long range 'strike-fighters'.

These aircraft look more similar than they are.

 

About the point "plenty of SEAD around": I think the Tornado is way better at SEAD than a Hornet.


Edited by Bananabrai

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Exactly what I said. Plenty of SEAD, paveways and jdams around already.

So you basically don't want any other A-G jet anymore?

 

Cool only opinions going around here, yes I think the viggen is the most interesting of the lot. The SU24 is the only other that spikes my interest since we don’t have a Russian high fidelity striker.

I said earlier tornado versions not other airframes.

We also don't have a British, German or Italian high fidelity striker either and the Tornado offers quite some additional capabilities that the Viggen does not have (e.g TFR).

Intel i7-12700K @ 8x5GHz+4x3.8GHz + 32 GB DDR5 RAM + Nvidia Geforce RTX 2080 (8 GB VRAM) + M.2 SSD + Windows 10 64Bit

 

DCS Panavia Tornado (IDS) really needs to be a thing!

 

Tornado3 small.jpg

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I still would want a Tornado if we had got a plane that did exactly the same.

 

 

Never underestimate the emotions ;)

 

 

It's the same with WW2 planes.

 

 

I don't want to cut the discussion. But I'm not here to find out whether I want a Tornado but which one would be nice and realistic to dream of at DCS. Like the topic says.

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Chipping in to this thread with nothing new. Honestly I'd fall on my sword if it was a Russian manufactured striker because the game needs more balance that way, noithing to do with flying my own countries icons. For the OP, GR1a or b if they are inclusive. ()alarm before sea eagle, preferably both)

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So you basically don't want any other A-G jet anymore?

 

 

We also don't have a British, German or Italian high fidelity striker either and the Tornado offers quite some additional capabilities that the Viggen does not have (e.g TFR).

 

I didn’t say I don’t want a tornado I said I want the older ones.

And yes if A.G. jets is again about paveways and jdams I have plenty no need for more. I want variety. Now MW-1 or a cormoran carrying F104 that would rock.

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I didn’t say I don’t want a tornado I said I want the older ones.

And yes if A.G. jets is again about paveways and jdams I have plenty no need for more. I want variety.

Alright, I see what you mean now.

 

Now MW-1 or a cormoran carrying F104 that would rock.

MW-1 on a F-104? I know the MW-1 has been intended to be used on the F-104 initially, but as far as I know this got changed to the Tornado while the MW-1 was still in development and hence has never been implemented for the F-104.

It makes much more sense on the Tornado anyways as it was designed to fly low, unlike the F-104.

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DCS Panavia Tornado (IDS) really needs to be a thing!

 

Tornado3 small.jpg

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True. I like the Viggen as well. But you are missing a good point here.

 

The Viggen was build to defend Sweden. If you are familiar with aircraft design, you're going to see that pretty quick.

You need a quick turn-around time if the enemy is on your territory. But it's not designed to strike deeper into enemy territory.

 

One crew member is barely enough to perform a 100% accurate strike.

You got 9 waypoints, you drop all bombs at once and you have to land if you need fuel, although you can land in the woods.

The weapon system only allows for certain combinations.

 

The Tornado is also capable of landing at a road base, only with less good wheel brakes.

The F-111 is a strategic strike platform, as is the Tornado. (at least the UK ones with more than 5000 kg of internal fuel) per definition.

 

I wish you good luck of performing a strike on an outpost, bad weather, night, 500 miles out, alone in the 'pit. You simply need two people for that.

I see the Viggen as kind of a 'strike-interceptor'. The others are long range 'strike-fighters'.

These aircraft look more similar than they are.

 

About the point "plenty of SEAD around": I think the Tornado is way better at SEAD than a Hornet.

 

 

 

I would love to see a Tornado in game, especially the GR1.

 

 

I do think though people are going to be disappointed with its range. One of the compromises the RAF accepted with the Tornado was a much shorter range than some of the aircraft is was replacing (Canberra and Buccaneer), and the aircraft it wanted (TSR). Against this was the higher dash speed at low level and a avionics suite designed for all weather attack.


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I would love to see a Tornado in game, especially the GR1.

 

 

I do think thought people are going to be disappointed with its range. One of the compromises the RAF accepted with the Tornado was a much shorter range than some of the aircraft is was replacing (Canberra and Buccaneer), and the aircraft it wanted (TSR). Against this was the higher dash speed at low level and a avionics suite designed for all weather attack.

 

Well, the Canberra is a high altitude bomber with no burners. You would never get such a range from a low flying bomber.

The TSR was huge, in size and financially, and the UK wanted to build it on their own. It would crtainly have been a great aircraft, though less airframes I guess. And less of a bird that unites us.

 

I think the Tornados range is pretty good for its small size and relativley high weapon load.

A jet of this size with 28 tons of weight is quite ok.

My dad was an IDS backseater. At Red Flag they used to take off first and come in last.

With a GR1 with two big tanks or a 3-tanker config you have a way better range at low level, than a F-16 with two 600gal tanks, at least if I my calculation is right...

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maybe a good reason for the 1st simulation of a buddy to buddy refueling in DCS ;)

That's actually a great point and would be a fun feature that no one has mentioned yet! With a Tornado you could fly tanker missions in DCS, not just to refuel other Tornados, but also Hornets, Tomcats, Mirages and Harriers. :joystick:

 

190613_Spottertag_Jagel_Noehmer_008.jpg

 

That was Germany's only tanker during the Cold War and well into the 2000s and thus buddy refueling was trained quite a lot.


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DCS Panavia Tornado (IDS) really needs to be a thing!

 

Tornado3 small.jpg

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maybe a good reason for the 1st simulation of a buddy to buddy refueling in DCS ;)

 

 

That would make refueling in orbit patterns a lot easier since the AI is totally incapable of flying an orbit as of yet...

 

 

 

photo_9999_277182.jpg

 

That was Germany's only tanker during the Cold War and well into the 2000s and thus buddy refueling was trained quite a lot.

 

 

 

Actually that is a stone age internet site which doesn't allow linking of images. Probably the most stupid thing ever right after having to sign up on forums to be able to see images or download files...

dcsdashie-hb-ed.jpg

 

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  • 2 weeks later...

I'll vote for any of the IDS versions ( although one with the more enhanced recon features might be fun if there's any room for that to be actually useful ) - I have fond memories of DiD's Tornado sim, and less fond memories of growing up in a low-flying training area being constantly bounced by the things.

 

Is range really going to be that big a deal with DCS map sizes?

 

I think most people would fly the F3 & laugh & go back to practically anything else :p ( I mean, some of the systems in the later ones were very good, but the aircraft is a bit of a dog when you have a F-14 ) I suspect it'd work well in a niche & have some enthusiastic supporters in a niche, but probably not as popular as the IDS...

 

Early IDS TFR would be more use on period-specific games, although how many people are not going to hand-fly it?


Edited by Richard Dastardly

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  • 2 months later...

A little bit off-topic, can you guys tell me what are those two missiles aft of the LGB?

 

 

Thank you.

 

RP: Brimstone missile, found it. Thank you.


Edited by Focha

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I think most people would fly the F3 & laugh & go back to practically anything else :p ( I mean, some of the systems in the later ones were very good, but the aircraft is a bit of a dog when you have a F-14 ) I suspect it'd work well in a niche & have some enthusiastic supporters in a niche, but probably not as popular as the IDS...

 

 

After just very recently watching an interview with former F3/Red Arrows pilot Mike Ling he made me look at the F3 differently and said it was actually a very potent package, so I think we need to give the F3 a little more credit here :D

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After just very recently watching an interview with former F3/Red Arrows pilot Mike Ling he made me look at the F3 differently and said it was actually a very potent package, so I think we need to give the F3 a little more credit here :D

It was a good interceptor, no doubt about it, but it wasn't a good fighter.

Intel i7-12700K @ 8x5GHz+4x3.8GHz + 32 GB DDR5 RAM + Nvidia Geforce RTX 2080 (8 GB VRAM) + M.2 SSD + Windows 10 64Bit

 

DCS Panavia Tornado (IDS) really needs to be a thing!

 

Tornado3 small.jpg

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It was a good interceptor, no doubt about it, but it wasn't a good fighter.

 

I think most of what I've heared about it's flight capability boiled down to "well, it's not as bad as a Phantom" - damned by faint praise indeed :) it seemed like it was designed to a 1950s brief of bomber interception, ignoring the possibility that the bombers would be either a) escorted by something that could fight, or b) *were* something that could fight.

 

I've read good things about the radar, and Skyflash was a vast improvement on Sparrow, but I'd imagine feeling pretty goddamn nervous closing on a bunch of Flankers in one...

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I've read good things about the radar, and Skyflash was a vast improvement on Sparrow, but I'd imagine feeling pretty goddamn nervous closing on a bunch of Flankers in one...

 

The Tornado F3 was an interceptor and was not expected to take on fighters like the Flanker. They were part of UKADGE and were for intercepting incoming bombers such as the Tu-95 Bear or the even the SU-24 Fencer if it got in range of the UK. They were not expected to act as an air superiority fighter and they were not issued to RAFG.

 

However they did send them to the Gulf during the first Gulf War, over Bosnia and later in Iraq again. Replaced eventually by the much more capable Eurofighter Typhoon.

 

IMHO it would have fought well against bombers and heavy fighters but in a dogfight with lighter fighters they probably have struggled. Still a lovely aircraft and very much of its time. :pilotfly:

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The Tornado F3 was an interceptor and was not expected to take on fighters like the Flanker. They were part of UKADGE and were for intercepting incoming bombers such as the Tu-95 Bear or the even the SU-24 Fencer if it got in range of the UK. They were not expected to act as an air superiority fighter and they were not issued to RAFG.

 

Well, yes, I mentioned that - the problem is when you send something other than bombers - we're not really *that* far from mainland Europe. They replaced the Lightning, so that left us with the F3 and the Phantom, or the US F-15s based here :p no surprise the EAP demo first flew a year after the F2 prototype...

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You are right about the distance but for fighters we had the F-4s which you did point out to. It was very unlikely that Soviet aircraft would have come from the East at least early in the war. Leaving long range bombers coming down from North Cape. The Su-22, Su-24 and Tu-95 were all very capable but no match for a well flown F3. The fact the F3 was not a fighter but as an interceptor was an advance on the aging Lightening. Ok it couldn't sit on its tail and vanish into the stratosphere almost passing the space shuttle on the way to ceiling like a Lightening, but it did have TWS style multi missile firing capability like the Tomcat.

 

Still in game I want the GR1.

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One canon less, but a huge display instead of the CRPMG in the back.

And wasn't the Storm Shadow in right form the early GR.4 days?

However, other weapons do give a lot more satisfaction if you nail it!

 

A FLIR is very nice, I would really love one, but I would rather not trade it in for the Sea Eagle and JP233.

(As far as I know, those were discontinued on the GR.4)

 

Storm shadow was initially handed over to RAF end of 2001, in very limited numbers, GR4 conversion airframes started being handed over think late 97 and then over a six year period. So when Op Telic was launched Storm Shadow was mission capable but limited in squadrons with 617 launching them first.

 

So in answer no it wasn't in from the beginning in terms of capability.

 

GR4 would be great, however despite being just retired alot of ordnance / systems data is sensitive no way ED are going to be able to get their hands on that nor would we want them. GR1 on the other hand....that would be immense especially if the A2G WSO radar was correctly done with offset fixation for attack runs a bit like the Viggen. Problem is think ED need to work on the whole side of that in terms of what reflects radar and what doesn't on the ground.

 

As for which tornado do you want - lets not even raise the spectre of the ADV. pointless. I'd love an early F2 , i'm sure the blue circle radar would be a great match for the AWG 9....NOT!

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