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Serious disadvantage without trackIR?


BertoneX

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I've just started using the 190 in multiplayer on burning skies. Lots of fun. But I have a really hard time keeping track of targets during dog fights. I don't have track or VR, just using the hat switch on my cheapo logitech extreme 3d pro.

 

My dogfights usually go something like - see the enemy, head on pass, lose sight of them, never see them again. I just maneuver blindly trying to find them and maybe get lucky or usually get shot down. With the 190 I've started to simply run away if I lose sight, which works but kinda chicken huh.

 

Most of the few kills I have were ones where they never saw me, I got into position and hit them before they knew I was there.

 

So is playing without some sort of head tracking, or VR a huge disadvantage in MP?

 

Another thing....what's up with ppl doing a quick dive when you sneak up on them from behind and hit them? I see this regularly now, get up behind them, pull the trigger, not land enough rounds to take them out and the instant they see the tracers or hear the hits I think they push the stick hard forward. I lose sight of them under the nose and usually never see them again....so it works....just kinda curious if that's a tactic ppl use or just coincidence I've seen it happening recently.

 

...anyways...gonna get online and see if I can win a few right now.

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My dogfights usually go something like - see the enemy, head on pass, lose sight of them, never see them again.

 

I think historically that's how 99% of all encounters played out during WW2.

 

Most of the few kills I have were ones where they never saw me, I got into position and hit them before they knew I was there.

 

That's the way to do it.

 

Before Track-IR everyone was using the hat-switch (or keyboard) to look around, track aircraft and dogfight. We did just fine. Once you got proficient with your thumb it became second nature. Personally speaking it took years for me to transition over from hat-switch to Track-IR; having a fixed point of reference during dogfights combined with lightning-fast changes of view were boons of the hat-switch days. Even these days during a vicious scrap I'll find myself disorientated in a way that would never happen when I was using the hat-switch. But I'd never go back - the advantages of head-tracking do outweigh the disadvantages, in my opinion.

 

If you are considering Track-IR make sure you look into the vastly cheaper alternatives. Track-IR is great but very, very expensive.

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I used Hatch switch before I had Track Ir. Once you get used to the hatch switch, its not bad at all. Do not zoom in too much otherwise you will loose SA. The more zoom out you are, more FOV you will have.

 

Track IR has its advantages but its not very uncomfortable. First of all you have to wear cap all the time and if u use headphones then the two things might become problem for you. Secondly, if u live in hot region, u wont be able to wear cap all the time.

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You need an old-school (pre-TrackIR) setup.

 

1. Hat switch with snap views - Use Number pad....looking down from the top 7=front left, 8=front up, 9=front right, 6=right, etc.

2. A modifier button for "up views" = Hat becomes snap+up....mod+7=up-front left, mod-8=up, mod-9=up-front-right, mod-6=up-right....etc

3. 0=down+front for instruments

 

With this setup and practice you can track other planes from all angles.

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I second what SVGamer said if you have to do it without Track IR/VR: SNAP VIEWS tied to a hat switch.

 

It is the only good way to keep your situation awareness because you know which way the snap view is looking, as opposed to scrolling around and loosing track of where the view scrolled to. Then having to recenter and try again. Do that and you have already lost the fight.

 

When the budget allows, then get either you can afford and that your system can support. VR takes a hefty machine to run well, so if that is lacking, Track IR (or free equivalents) might be the better option and will be much better than without.

 

In dogfighting, "Lose sight, lost the fight"

 

Good luck!

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Yep, trackIR is definitely the way to go, it's not you can't fly in any other way but it's a way better solution for your views. Anyhow, before investing in that, invest in a better joystick and you'll notice the difference and will be plenty of hats to use as Snap View.

 

 

S!

"I went into the British Army believing that if you want peace you must prepare for war. I believe now that if you prepare for war, you get war."

-- Major-General Frederick B. Maurice

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flew with the hatswitch for a year or so, it was manageable as long as you kept the fight at medium ranges. small spot size at long ranges and high angular rates at close ranges both work against hatview.

 

you can get good with hatview, but long story short is that trackir is a real enabler for the wvr arena. get it and dont look back.

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I didn't spend much time on here without Track IR. I would assume those saying you get used to the hat switch style of viewing are correct, however, in my mind the goal is to get as close to the real thing as possible. Being able to move your head in real life to move your head in game goes a long way in achieving this. You can adjust the motion to be exactly how you want it to be. Unless your thinking VR, I wouldn't suggest anything less than Track IR. With practice you'll be able to padlock targets (real padlock, not the in-game padlock mechanic/"cheat") and maneuver without letting them escape your sight.

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  • 2 weeks later...
You need an old-school (pre-TrackIR) setup.

 

1. Hat switch with snap views - Use Number pad....looking down from the top 7=front left, 8=front up, 9=front right, 6=right, etc.

2. A modifier button for "up views" = Hat becomes snap+up....mod+7=up-front left, mod-8=up, mod-9=up-front-right, mod-6=up-right....etc

3. 0=down+front for instruments

 

With this setup and practice you can track other planes from all angles.

 

While I truly enjoy TrackIR and the much newer VR, the old hat switch way of doing business worked just as well or better. If you have the setup described above and are proficient in its use, you will be able to follow a target and dogfight just as well or better than anyone using TrackIR or VR. It is very easy to get disoriented using TrackIR. VR is in many ways the best solution, but I lose targets due to the low resolution. The old POV switch means you always know exactly which way you are looking (like VR) but with the high resolution and associated visual accuity of using a 2d monitor. With a minimum of practice, the POV hat is really superior to both TrackIR and VR except that it doesn't feel as immersive.

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]

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  • 1 month later...
You need an old-school (pre-TrackIR) setup.

 

1. Hat switch with snap views - Use Number pad....looking down from the top 7=front left, 8=front up, 9=front right, 6=right, etc.

2. A modifier button for "up views" = Hat becomes snap+up....mod+7=up-front left, mod-8=up, mod-9=up-front-right, mod-6=up-right....etc

3. 0=down+front for instruments

 

With this setup and practice you can track other planes from all angles.

 

 

Being honest I love and hate trackir.What gets me is the constant recentering and losing tracking when leaning to sides.I loved the fact that snap views also allows you to sit however u want at your desk...slumped or whatever.

 

 

Care to post your setup?i tried to do same recently with num keys but could not get the modifier to move view up.If its good I'll get rid of trackir for good.


Edited by wolfstriked

"Its easy,place the pipper on target and bombs away." :pilotfly:

 

i7-8700k/GTX 1080ti/VKB-GladiatorPRO/VKB-T-rudder Pedals/Saitek X55 throttle

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Being honest I love and hate trackir.What gets me is the constant recentering and losing tracking when leaning to sides.I loved the fact that snap views also allows you to sit however u want at your desk...slumped or whatever.

 

 

Care to post your setup?i tried to do same recently with num keys but could not get the modifier to move view up.If its good I'll get rid of trackir for good.

 

I was mistaken about the up modifier. I apologize for the misdirection. It applies to other games, but not DCS (unless I am missing something).

 

I think you can still get the results you want. The steps are kinda wonky....I haven't used the method below for years, but I tested it today and it still works.

 

There are built-in snap views, and then you can setup 10 custom ones.

 

You should be able to setup snap views that cover your view outside the cockpit without gaps or the need for an up modifier. "8" can cover up (and slightly forward), and "2" can cover up and looking back.

 

Notes:

 

A. The keystroke "RAlt+Num0" saves the current snap view position

B. "RCtrl+RShft+Number" key moves the camera for fine tuning

C. You will be mapping "Custom Snap View 0-9" for each module

 

Example = Left Rear Snap View mapped to Custom Snap View 1

 

1. Use the number keys to move the view to where you want it, and then fine tune with camera controls (B above)

 

2. Press LWin+Num1

 

3. Press RAlt+Num0 to save the new snap view (you can test by hitting Num5 to center and then LWin+Num1 to verify the view was saved)

 

4. Map "Custom Snap View 1" to down+left on your hat switch

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I was mistaken about the up modifier. I apologize for the misdirection. It applies to other games, but not DCS (unless I am missing something).

 

I think you can still get the results you want. The steps are kinda wonky....I haven't used the method below for years, but I tested it today and it still works.

 

There are built-in snap views, and then you can setup 10 custom ones.

 

You should be able to setup snap views that cover your view outside the cockpit without gaps or the need for an up modifier. "8" can cover up (and slightly forward), and "2" can cover up and looking back.

 

Notes:

 

A. The keystroke "RAlt+Num0" saves the current snap view position

B. "RCtrl+RShft+Number" key moves the camera for fine tuning

C. You will be mapping "Custom Snap View 0-9" for each module

 

Example = Left Rear Snap View mapped to Custom Snap View 1

 

1. Use the number keys to move the view to where you want it, and then fine tune with camera controls (B above)

 

2. Press LWin+Num1

 

3. Press RAlt+Num0 to save the new snap view (you can test by hitting Num5 to center and then LWin+Num1 to verify the view was saved)

 

4. Map "Custom Snap View 1" to down+left on your hat switch

 

 

Thanks I'll try again.Original IL2 had best snap views! Press 1 back left and if u pressed 4 while still holding 1 u would get the view inbetween the two.Really made all areas easily viewable.The new sims went backwards in this regard,probably due to trackir.

"Its easy,place the pipper on target and bombs away." :pilotfly:

 

i7-8700k/GTX 1080ti/VKB-GladiatorPRO/VKB-T-rudder Pedals/Saitek X55 throttle

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Well, for me playing a sim without TRACKIR nearly equals playing a strategy game with keyboard instead of mouse. TRACKIR has become a second nature for me, going as far, when I am watching some cockpit video I have a tendency to move my head to control the view :D

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Being honest I love and hate trackir.What gets me is the constant recentering and losing tracking when leaning to sides.I loved the fact that snap views also allows you to sit however u want at your desk...slumped or whatever.

 

 

Care to post your setup?i tried to do same recently with num keys but could not get the modifier to move view up.If its good I'll get rid of trackir for good.

 

Generally speaking, if you have the distance and camera positioning right it shouldn't do that too much. I mean some, and it's annoying, but if it's a significant issue it's an indication something's not right.

 

I had major issues with my TrackIR 4 studdering and spazing out, but due to my setup I have to sit far back and the camera is high. I traded it for a TrackIR 5 (higher res and fov) and those problems went away. My dad uses my old 4 with no problen, but he sits much closer.

 

IR lights are better than reflectors. Also critical it be centered in the middle of the camera's FoV, not above or to one side because your head is in the center. The lights/reflectors need to be in center. Beyond that, curve tweaking to make sure you stay inbounds.

Де вороги, знайдуться козаки їх перемогти.

5800x3d * 3090 * 64gb * Reverb G2

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