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Heatblur Development Update - Thunder & Cat


Cobra847

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They already accomplished a very good release and you can't take that from them, no matter how dissapointed you are.

 

Development takes time. Especially for the tasks at hand.

 

The comfort prior to release was the simple fact, that the differential between the definite announcement and the release was pretty short, compared to the complete development of the cat.

 

Now the time needed for features is the same, but you can measure it, it seems like the teapot never gets hot.

 

 

 

If you think your comparrison is fair, is up to you.

 

I'm not even disappointed - I am just pointing out that "being a small team" is no excuse for slack. Others can do it, too, as being proven by DIS right now.

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I'm not even disappointed - I am just pointing out that "being a small team" is no excuse for slack. Others can do it, too, as being proven by DIS right now.

 

Sorry, but what are you exactly is the issue? Not being as good as Deka?

 

I suggest you take a stroll down memory lane and check what our changelogs looked like on the week(s) of release of both the Viggen and F-14.


Edited by Cobra847

Nicholas Dackard

 

Founder & Lead Artist

Heatblur Simulations

 

https://www.facebook.com/heatblur/

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Sorry, but what are you exactly is the issue? Not being as good as Deka?

 

I suggest you take a stroll down memory lane and check what our changelogs looked like on the week(s) of release of both the Viggen and F-14.

 

No. Dude. Seriously. I know that you have been delivering a lot both at release and in the following months. You guys are still a great example of delivering seriously good work. All I am saying is: being a small team is no excuse in slacking, and you can't with a straight face agree, that work on the Viggen progressed as you probably had wished yourself. There's a lot of stuff still on the todo-List for the Tomcat too, and prior to your development update in this thread a lot of that was so badly in Limbo that I personally thought it quite understandable that questions started popping up.

 

So: while your team certainly is delivering good work I feel like the guys at DIS are setting a new bar with the transparency and communication. Yes, even better than you guys - which doesn't mean you are doing a bad job, which is why I never said that. :)

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I suggest you take a stroll down memory lane and check what our changelogs looked like on the week(s) of release of both the Viggen and F-14.

Yeah, that was outstanding initial work indeed, but that declined to a veeeeeeeeeeeeeery slow speed rather early (especially with the Viggen), while there were and still are remaing features and fixes that wait for implementation since forever (e.g. Viggen RAT, IR FRAMSTEGN functionality and some others).

 

 

I'd like to point out what HB *has* already delivered. The cat feels way more complete to me than the Hornet, for example.

There are some features missing like Jester operating LANTIRN, but hell that's by no means an easy task.

Sure, HB has released their modules in a much more complete state, than e.g. the Hornet, but that doesn't mean they can just let the things that are missing slide aside. And it's not just about difficult tasks like LANTIRN integration for jester or proper Phoenix integration, which understandably take some time, but there are also rather small issues like the missing white flood lights for the RIO.

Now having said that as a response to your comment, I personally don't have much of an issue with HBs work on the Tomcat, as the Tomcat has just been released this year and work on it still seems to go along pretty nicely. I have much more issues with the work on the remaining features and fixes for the Viggen, as this module is waiting for much longer to get completed and work on it has gone down considerably. :(

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Pace of development will never be the post-release as it is at, around and just after release. The low hanging fruit falls away, the small bugs are gone, and what remains is difficult, time consuming and different.

 

It's also a catch-22: Prioritizing lesser issues comes at the cost of progress on bigger tasks, and vice-versa. The F-14 is a good example, where the art team is focused on shipping the Forrestal and other chunkier features, at the cost of fixing the RIOs white floods.

Nicholas Dackard

 

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Heatblur Simulations

 

https://www.facebook.com/heatblur/

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Yeah, that was outstanding initial work indeed, but that declined to a veeeeeeeeeeeeeery slow speed rather early (especially with the Viggen), while there were and still are remaing features and fixes that wait for implementation since forever (e.g. Viggen RAT, IR FRAMSTEGN functionality and some others).

 

That was exactly what I was trying to point at, too. Viggen progress has slowed to a crawl, and I'm very glad to see it pick it up a bit again.

 

Sure, HB has released their modules in a much more complete state, than e.g. the Hornet, but that doesn't mean they can just let the things that are missing slide aside. And it's not just about difficult tasks like LANTIRN integration for jester or proper Phoenix integration, which understandably take some time, but there are also rather small issues like the missing white flood lights for the RIO.

 

And that, too - I totally understand that small fixes like correcting "COMP" to "COMB" in the hyd pressure gauges, the correct temperature gauges for the B-engines, the Avionics Cool textures, the lighting etc. are low on the priorities list, but really: that's half a year now and now we have the helmet visor knobs corrected? Some more transparency on why these (seemingly) small things take so long would be very neat.

 

I have absolutely no problem with waiting, even a long time (else I wouldn't support the EA model so much), but more information is, IMHO, not only desirable but absolutely mandatory.

 

A thread like this here was very, very welcome. I would wish for more frequent ones, is all.

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No. Dude. Seriously. I know that you have been delivering a lot both at release and in the following months. You guys are still a great example of delivering seriously good work. All I am saying is: being a small team is no excuse in slacking, and you can't with a straight face agree, that work on the Viggen progressed as you probably had wished yourself. There's a lot of stuff still on the todo-List for the Tomcat too, and prior to your development update in this thread a lot of that was so badly in Limbo that I personally thought it quite understandable that questions started popping up.

 

So: while your team certainly is delivering good work I feel like the guys at DIS are setting a new bar with the transparency and communication. Yes, even better than you guys - which doesn't mean you are doing a bad job, which is why I never said that. :)

 

Lately we've been more focused on shipping fixes and changes as communication rather than talking about them. All talk and no walk, as QuiGon put it, is frustrating for all parties involved, and for some of these issues, it can get quite difficult to marry the two.

Nicholas Dackard

 

Founder & Lead Artist

Heatblur Simulations

 

https://www.facebook.com/heatblur/

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It's also a catch-22: Prioritizing lesser issues comes at the cost of progress on bigger tasks, and vice-versa. The F-14 is a good example, where the art team is focused on shipping the Forrestal and other chunkier features, at the cost of fixing the RIOs white floods.

 

See: that is perfect. Why not more often post infos like this? Of course you will never satisfy everyone. I'd rather have textures and lighting in the Cat fixed before the Forrestal, but at least now I KNOW that obviously the whole art team is on the Forrestal, and that's ok for me. I just want to know.

 

Lately we've been more focused on shipping fixes and changes as communication rather than talking about them. All talk and no walk, as QuiGon put it, is frustrating for all parties involved, and for some of these issues, it can get quite difficult to marry the two.

 

That is probably very much true, and I wouldn't want to do your job, nor tell you how to do it. All I am saying is, that I am impressed by the level of communication by DIS and would like somewhat more talk, even at the expense of walk. But that's just my 0.02$, which I am delivering in this thread as one voice for you to build an opinion about.


Edited by Shimmergloom667

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See: that is perfect. Why not more often post infos like this? Of course you will never satisfy everyone. I'd rather have textures and lighting in the Cat fixed before the Forrestal, but at least now I KNOW that obviously the whole art team is on the Forrestal, and that's ok for me. I just want to know.

 

But.. we do. :)

 

Check how many posts IronMike has made in the last months, or our combined postcounts on hoggit, here by all of our staff (Fat_Creason, swither, me, IronMike, gyrovague, RagnarDa, etc.).

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But.. we do. :)

 

Check how many posts IronMike has made in the last months, or our combined postcounts on hoggit, here by all of our staff (Fat_Creason, swither, me, IronMike, gyrovague, RagnarDa, etc.).

 

Then maybe it is a question of structure. Like: take hoggit e.g.: this is the "official" information hub for DCS, the forums. I am practically glued to these forums, and that's why I get *most* of the information, but certainly not all. And hoggit is an external platform, tbh - the information there might be valuable, but IMHO it's *here* where it's needed.

 

And while your sticky threads are helpful: some are outdated, some are redundant, there is no up-to-date "known issues, todo-list, what we are working on right now"-overview. Maybe that's why I am subjectively more impressed with DIS at the moment, because it is so easy to see, without going through several places, what exactly is going on.

 

And again: I get that stuff like that takes time that may also be spent in coding. I'm just chiming in with what I see lacking and why. (And boy, that again doesn't mean that you do a BAD job, just where I see room for improvement. No need to look to much to other dev teams, but the one starting with R are certainly lacking a lot in that regard, and that is the absolute main source of frustration for a lot of customers) :)

 

One way or the other: please don't take my comments here as negative - maybe you read them that way, but I hold your modules in high regards.


Edited by Shimmergloom667

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@Shimmergloom667: please stop already, you're taking away dev's time on useless discussion. I don't think they need to write more or even explain why. Let them do their job.

 

How about you don't tell me what to do, and I don't tell you what to do? Agreed? Great.

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Ok, no, thanks, I won't stop respectfully voicing my opinion and engaging in discussion with the devs if they so choose. :)

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Pace of development will never be the post-release as it is at, around and just after release. The low hanging fruit falls away, the small bugs are gone, and what remains is difficult, time consuming and different.

I totally understand that development for a module that has been released for a while can not be on the same level as before and around the release, but it shouldn't decline that far, that the development of remaining features gets strechted out to almost infinity. I know, with the nature of DCS (and modern software in general), development on a module never really finishes as the platform around it keeps evolving, but I'm not talking about maintainance fixes, but about getting remaining features implemented (e.g. Viggen RAT), to make the module feature complete. This should not be strechted too far in time and 3 years since release is a long time to get feature complete.

Technically the Viggen hasn't even been released yet as it is still in Early Access because of those remaining items and you yourself once said: "We don't want to be stuck in the eternal Beta rut".

 

So in short: I would really be happy if you could address the remaining issues of the Viggen and finish it up, so you then can focus on the Tomcat and new stuff :)

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nice...

 

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Are the people in the last 3 pages in this thread for real? You don't actually deserve an up to the minute update, what the devs, whether it's a 3rd party or ED themselves are working on. It's nice that they do give us updates, but personally I'd rather leave to their jobs.

 

Unbelievable.

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Are the people in the last 3 pages in this thread for real? You don't actually deserve an up to the minute update, what the devs, whether it's a 3rd party or ED themselves are working on. It's nice that they do give us updates, but personally I'd rather leave to their jobs.

 

Unbelievable.

 

I like how you paint us as people who say they "deserve" something where we just voiced our opinion in what could be improved by an already good team! But hey, whatever floats your boat. :thumbup:

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I like how you paint us as people who say they "deserve" something where we just voiced our opinion in what could be improved by an already good team! But hey, whatever floats your boat. :thumbup:

 

Because you act like a child. Try having a mature discussion and you wouldn't receive the amount of negative feedback. The devs have answered your questions and yet you persist. Heatblur has done an incredible job with this module and I have no doubts that the features promised will be delivered at some point.

 

Everyone needs to relax and enjoy what you have.

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Because you act like a child. Try having a mature discussion and you wouldn't receive the amount of negative feedback. The devs have answered your questions and yet you persist. Heatblur has done an incredible job with this module and I have no doubts that the features promised will be delivered at some point.

 

I didn't have questions. I was making observations and suggestions for improvement. I don't have any doubts that we will get the announced features at some point either, which is why I never commented on that or doubted that.

 

Everyone needs to relax and enjoy what you have.

 

I am pretty relaxed and enjoying both the Viggen and the Cat a lot, thankyouverymuch. :)

i7 - 9700K | 32 GB DDR4 3200 | RTX 2080 | VKB Gunfighter Mk II /w MCG Pro | Virpil T-50CM2 Throttle | TrackIR 5 | VKB Mk. IV

 

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Guys, no need to argue. We appreciate both sides, really, those who support us with their tremendous patience, and those who support us with their criticism. Both is equally important, while one lets us breathe, the other reminds us to not fall back on our laurels.

 

In the end reality lets us do that much and not more, and when a decision has to be made, quality has to have priority, so we rather "stand trial" for missed dates than for bad quality. The same counts for communication: we do take on board everything, we answer to almost everything, but it needs to be weighed against time spent or - and pls dont take this the wrong way - time spent on better things on the to do list...

 

And lastly, please keep in mind that our modules come with a ton of extra features that many if not most sim products simply do not offer: both in additional assets (carriers, AI, a second aircraft version) or functionalities (multicrew, Jester), but in some cases also depth of realism (graphics, or a raycasting a2g radar, realistic rwrs, ins modeled down to its gyros, the extensive fm, etc etc). This comes at an extra cost of development time, naturally, and in that sense I kindly ask you for your understanding that of course our modules take longer to complete as an overall package. Both modules could have been considered feature complete a good while ago, but in the end our goal is to give you the most we can, that has always been our way. To deliver that we need time, time we cannot always assess exactly in terms of how long it will take. It is a journey, and we are greatful that you are on this journey with us. Thank you. :)

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And it is a blast of a journey, so a heartfelt "thank you!" from me! :)

i7 - 9700K | 32 GB DDR4 3200 | RTX 2080 | VKB Gunfighter Mk II /w MCG Pro | Virpil T-50CM2 Throttle | TrackIR 5 | VKB Mk. IV

 

AJS-37 | A/V-8B | A-10C | F-14A/B | F-16C | F-18C | F-86F | FC3 | JF-17 | Ka-50 | L-39 | Mi-8 | MiG-15bis | MiG-19 | MiG-21bis | M2000-C | P-51D | Spitfire LF Mk. IX | UH-1H

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Heatblur Development Update - Thunder & Cat

 

Guys, no need to argue. We appreciate both sides, really, those who support us with their tremendous patience, and those who support us with their criticism. Both is equally important, while one lets us breathe, the other reminds us to not fall back on our laurels.

 

In the end reality lets us do that much and not more, and when a decision has to be made, quality has to have priority, so we rather "stand trial" for missed dates than for bad quality. The same counts for communication: we do take on board everything, we answer to almost everything, but it needs to be weighed against time spent or - and pls dont take this the wrong way - time spent on better things on the to do list...

 

And lastly, please keep in mind that our modules come with a ton of extra features that many if not most sim products simply do not offer: both in additional assets (carriers, AI, a second aircraft version) or functionalities (multicrew, Jester), but in some cases also depth of realism (graphics, or a raycasting a2g radar, realistic rwrs, ins modeled down to its gyros, the extensive fm, etc etc). This comes at an extra cost of development time, naturally, and in that sense I kindly ask you for your understanding that of course our modules take longer to complete as an overall package. Both modules could have been considered feature complete a good while ago, but in the end our goal is to give you the most we can, that has always been our way. To deliver that we need time, time we cannot always assess exactly in terms of how long it will take. It is a journey, and we are greatful that you are on this journey with us. Thank you. :)

 

 

 

I think what you guys did with the Tomcat really set the bar high. Never have I gotten a cool jet with a cool album with a funny RIO. I am a bit disappointed he hasn’t sung me “Great Balls of Fire” yet.

 

I know.....EA.

 

 

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Edited by Eagle7907

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