DCS MiG-19P Status update_First report

Hello pilots,

 

First of all, please excuse this non English speaker if any typos slip through his revisions…

 

1) Known flight model issues of the MiG-19P as of release are:

 

• Stall behavior lacks some features characteristic of aircraft stalls.
  

Like, aircraft vibration at low speed and AOA and roll of the wings in dependence of how much the stick is pulled and a subsequent drop of the nose.

• Impossibility to get into Spins.
  
• Thrust at MIL setting too high, causing the aircraft to super-cruise.
  
• Incorrect tuning of the MIL engine setting in a specific RPM range.
  
• Lack of airframe damage because of excessive G overload and overspeed.
  
• Lack of external stores rip-off with the aircraft pulling more than 5Gs.
  
• STR and ITR behavior still needs to be improved.
  
• Bad operation of the pilot´s G-suit making the pilot to start to black out starting at 6Gs.
  
• Engine damage because of oil supply cut.
  
• Engine stability during the different overloads, heights and pilot control.
  

2) Correct parameters of the flight model of the MiG-19P as released:

 

- The stall behavior was mostly correct.

 

From the real aircraft flight manual:

 

“…If the aircraft slows down to the speed of 280km/h (with the flaps and gear in) a slight vibration appears and the aircraft starts to oscillate laterally. As the speed decreases the vibrations increase.”

 

“…If the pilot pulls the stick smoothly after the nose drops down, the aircraft starts a shallow glide with a slight bank or not bank at all. The aircraft retains controllability in this glide at speeds between 250-270km/h. This behavior is the same regardless of gear and flaps being in or out.”

 

- Rotation speed during take-off.

 

Real MiG-19P: 230 km/h

DCS MiG-19P: 224 km/h (-3%)

 

- Take off speed. (Clean aircraft)

 

Real MiG-19P: 280 km/h

DCS MiG-19P: 278 km/h (-1%)

 

- Sustained turn at the altitude of 5.000 meters (5.4G)

 

Real MiG-19P: 31 seconds

DCS MiG-19P: 36 seconds (+16%)

 

- Max true airspeed (TAS)

 

Real MiG-19P: 1370 km/h

DCS MiG-19P: 1393 km/h (+2%)

 

- Landing speed

 

Real MiG-19P: 235 km/h

DCS MiG-19P: 230 km/h (-3.5%)

- Aircraft static ceiling

 

Real MiG-19P: 17.500 meters

DCS MiG-19P: 17.700 meters (+1%)

18.500 meters achieved dynamically.

 

- Aircraft range and endurance

 

Around 1390 km max and 1hr 43min without drop tanks.

Around 2200 km max and 2hr 38min with 760 lts drop tanks

 

These tests were performed with the engine working in NOMINAL at the height of 14.000 meters. The DCS version is within 4-6% of these values.

 

A dedicated chart with the different ranges and endurances per altitude will be made available in the flight manual.

 

- Roll speeds and roll and pitch inertia values

 

The roll speeds and inertia values are correct since release for the DCS MiG-19P aircraft, as these values are taken from the real aircraft performance manual and thereby included in the calculations.

 

- MP-100M Flight control G-limiter

This is an artificial stick effort device. It won´t allow the aircraft to go above 8G units during a maneuver. In real life, this device can be overridden if the pilot applies a considerable greater effort to pull the sitck.

 

- Aircraft trim law in all the range of speeds.

 

We decided to present the most important parameters for this report that were close or the same as the real aircraft, there´re a few more parameters like max time in Afterburner at different heights, fuel consumption, take-off speed with different loads, take-off at different engine regimes, ARU-2V Flight control system, etc., that were tested deeply and carefully and are correctly modeled since the release.

 

3) Work on the flight model continues:

 

The current flight model in testing and release candidate for the next update have been “cured” of many of the issues that were present at release. The new working features are:

 

a) Stall features:

Now the aircraft starts to vibrate as the speed decreases below 280km/h and will maintain the glide if the stick is not overpulled. In case that the stick is retained all the way back, the aircraft will roll over one wing and drop the nose.

 

b) Spins

If during the stall, the stick is maintained all the way back, is suddenly pulled back, during the stall, turns or a loop, the aircraft will enter a spin or inverted spin. Any rudder movement during stalls its excessive use during turn will cause the aircraft to spin in the direction the rudder was used. The spin can be exited using especial measures that will be included in the flight manual.

 

This behavior is totally dynamic.

 

 

c) Pilot G-suit has been improved. Now the pilot can sustain much greater Gs, close to 8 units without blacking out.

 

d) Engine thrust at MIL and airframe drag.

Engine thrust at MIL was completely reworked (as you will be able to see in the charts below). Now the aircraft is not able to super-cruise in level flight. However, be aware that when using MAX/MIL power setting the aircraft can break/graze the sound barrier in a shallow dive. This is correctly modeled based on real data.

 

e) The following charts have been made using a tool we have developed to assist in the accurate recreation of the flight models of present and future Razbam aircrafts. The tool was first used to create the FM of the DCS MiG-19P aircraft. It allows us to tune the simulated aircraft performance against the real aircraft charts. This will greatly increase the flight models development speed and accuracy.

 

NOTE: The dotted lines are the real life reference, taken from the aircraft performance manual. The continuous lines are from the simulated DCS MiG-19P aircraft.

 

 

 

f) As we were aware that some people in the community have doubts regarding the aircraft capacity to lose speed while airbraking, engine at IDLE, both with and without airbrakes, we want to explain this better.

 

The real aircraft performance charts indicate that it may take as much as 58 seconds with airbrakes and more than 100 seconds without them for an aircraft TAS to fall from 1.100 km/h to 600 km/h at the altitude of 5.300 meters. These values are even greater for higher altitudes.

 

g) The appearance and interaction with the cockpit illumination changes.

 

For the next update of the DCS MiG-19P; the cockpit lighting have been changed to work as how its real world counterpart was. There´s in general a total lack of information regarding all the variants of the MiG-19 and while we were able to get many and good quality manuals about the aircraft performance and systems as we have showed in the past, many other details like cockpit lighting, colors and some systems arrangement is hard to know. Thanks to the help of many knowledgeable individuals like foxbat155 and others we are getting to know all these important details better.

 

- ARUFOs-45 UV lamps models have been added.

- UV light intensity can be controlled by means of the RUFO-45 knobs, this being reflected in the cockpit.

- Phosphor based text changed from yellow to the correct green color.

- White light is independent of the UV lighting and can only be turned ON or OFF, no intensity control.

- Cockpit instruments that had its own yellow backlight added, like the AGI-1; AR18-19 radar control panel gauge, ARK-5P frequency range between others.

 

4) Rockets and bombs modes for the ASP-5N gunsight.

 

While the ASP-5N air to air cannon modes are working correctly, we still need to get into the air to ground modes for the rockets and bombs that currently are not working as they should.

 

First, the rockets mode should work the same as the cannons in RADAR mode for air targets. Rockets can be used for ground targets the same as the cannons in OPTIC mode, with the manual introduction of base (span) and distance. Several tables are used also, indicating the correct “lead” angle to be introduced in the gunsight; altitude and dive angle at which several types of rockets can be used.

 

Bombs mode for the ASP-5N gunsight is a simple method in which the reticle drops down in order for the pilot to have the reference of the aircraft longitudinal axis against the ground. “Lead” angles for the gunsight, release altitude and dive angle data is given in a table for the pilot.

 

All this is currently being worked for the sight to operate as intended and the manual changes to reflect this changes. Tables for the armament use will also be included.

 

 

In general this is the Razbam Simulations report regarding the current DCS MiG-19P status and the plan to make it better. We decided to get this approach because of the community concerns and feedback, so you can know firsthand what to expect from our modules, know their true state and don´t be misled by the lack of data and feelings. You can expect similar reports to be presented from time to time for every Razbam aircraft developed or in development.

 

Because of the complexity of the work required to develop aircraft modules for DCS, the sometimes lack of data and the fact that no human work is perfect, our products may never be fully featured and 98-100% close in performance to its real counterpart the day of its release.

 

We are really sorry for the misunderstandings in communication and we will prove that we learn from our mistakes with palpable facts. Starting today, expect a report of “present vs missing” features for any new Razbam release and also reports on the state of the missing features and its completion in present modules, and of course you can be sure that our current aircrafts will be made feature complete.

 

 

Well, now if you don´t mind, I will return to development…

 

Edited March 21, 2019 by OverStratos

wow, excelllent workout and statement, very trustworthy. thank you for that!

 

 

regarding the picture - is it the mig-23 in an early test flight? :-)

Edited March 21, 2019 by flanker1

Great write up Overstratos. I really appreciate your candor and transparency regarding the Mig. I feel much better about having purchased it now.

 

Thank you

Excellent! Very useful and honest information.

 

I can't view the videos for some reason. It says "an error has occured". Are you sure you included the links here correctly?

I love to read that kind of report :thumbup:

 

 

Indisputable quality now :punk:

This candid post is very much appreciated! Thanks for doing it.

fixing the YT links

Thank you!!!

 

I am a huge fan of your work with the MIG-19, and I really enjoy the module. I am very excited to see how it progresses.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Extremely well done OverStratos! That's huge progress in a short time, solid data, and a great report to show it all. Looking forward to the updates and, looking at this, any of your future work.

You may want to double-check the youtube links, mate. ;) Nice work!

 

Inverted Spin

 

Regular Spin

 

Stall Behaviour

Edited March 21, 2019 by Charly_Owl

That's what I call being transparent! GJ Razbam!

good report and info, love the openness and REALLY hope to see it continue with the updates

thank you

Thanks a lot for the report.

 

I was very excited about the Mig-19 and was a bit disappointed when I saw the first reviews and comments about it (especially the flight model), to the point where I decided to hold off buying it. I'm happy to say that this report has changed my mind yet again :)

 

One question regarding the stall behavior - what you have shown in the video is the aircraft's behavior at idle power. What happens if you attempt the same thing (stick full aft at 250 km/h IAS), but in mil or max power? That's one of the things that was shown in the initial videos that put me off from purchasing the module - it seems odd that the aircraft can just keep climbing in that condition rather than gliding down and/or departing like you showed.

thanks you a lot. Great job as always! :thumbup:

Thank you this makes me feel a lot better about our MiG

So much for a finished product

 

Sent from my ONEPLUS A5010 using Tapatalk

Thumbs up for this kind of report. This is a good behaviour in my opinion. Good continuation to you.

Glad to see you guys doing this for the mig. It would be good if reports like these become the quarterly norm for the other aircraft as well, then that would be great.

:thumbup: Thanks for the status report, much appreciated!

Thanks for the info. As I show of support, today I bought the Mig-19 module in the E-shop. Keep improving it.

1st. Thnaks OverStratos Grate work. Thanks for being strait fordward.

 

So much for a finished product[ATTACH]206988[/ATTACH]

 

Sent from my ONEPLUS A5010 using Tapatalk

 

It is a Finished product, No features missing. Every software needs to be adjusted and eliminate bugs.Or acording to you there is no finished product in DCS, Huey missig Multicrew, Gazzelle dont get me started, Mig 21, broken, Mig 15 control problems, have you tryed the Tomcat?(its a spperb product bu by no means as compleat and bug free as we or even teh devs expected...) the F/A 18 is not even Alpha... Combined arms, juts a buch of features put togueder with no cohesion, WWII a Joke...

Disclaimer (I LOVE DCS= I just know what to expect and what not...) and beggining to get tired of the "self rigeouse" charaters that pop here and there..

 

I am by no means condoning Razbams past blunders, but when thay are trying hard to bring out a quality product under the direction fo someone NEW, that had NOTHING to do with the Mirage or the Harrier, and instead went for a simpler Plane and did a suepperb job in 1 years work, AND its still here working on geting it better, your coment is really out of place and in my oppinion, out of spite and resentment.

 

Don´t want to have anything to do with Razbam, then live with it.

But dont put down other peoples work, specially when they are trying its best to get it right.

 

And Yes its a different development team, and specialy a general manager of teh proyect that by the way one that comes fordward and admits what is wrong and tell us precisely how he is going to fix it. and when.

Edited March 21, 2019 by Baco

1st. Thnaks OverStratos Grate work. Thanks for being strait fordward.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

It is a Finished product, No features missing. Every software needs to be adjusted and eliminate bugs.Or acording to you there is no finished product in DCS, Huey missig Multicrew, Gazzelle dont get me started, Mig 21, broken, Mig 15 control problems, have you tryed the Tomcat? the F/A 18 is not even Alpha...

 

 

 

I am by no means condoning Razbams past blunders, but when thay are trying hard to bring out a quality product under the direction fo someone NEW, that had NOTHING to do with the Mirage or the Harrier, and instead went for a simpler Plane and did a suepperb job in 1 years work, AND its still here working on geting it better, your coment is really out of place and in my oppinion, out of spite and resentment.

 

 

 

Don´t want to have anything to do with Razbam, then live with it.

 

But dont put down other peoples work, specially when they are trying its best to get it right.

 

 

 

And Yes its a different development team, and specialy a general manager of teh proyect that by the way one that comes fordward and admits what is wrong and tell us precisely how he is going to fix it. and when.

If there's this much wrong with it then it isn't a finished product. All those you mentioned (aside from the mig-21 which i agree is broken) are in early access. The farmer was never supposed to be.

 

Sent from my ONEPLUS A5010 using Tapatalk

I believe its not easy geting someone to give you a space and let you show your work, there are not many 3rd party developers out there, and Razbam gave Overstratos and his team a chance. I respect that a LOT. lets not put them down before they can trully show us what they can do. Its in our best interest as well as Razbam And ED.

If there's this much wrong with it then it isn't a finished product. All those you mentioned (aside from the mig-21 which i agree is broken) are in early access. The farmer was never supposed to be.

 

Sent from my ONEPLUS A5010 using Tapatalk

 

Is the Huey being worked on? or are you saying that its going to be for ever in EA? its Eds work.. Belsimtech are now working on the Hornet then the Falcon... I believe teh H-1H is either done or done for... then. Gazelle?

 

Sorry if I come of too strong. I believe in giving new people a chance befor we destroy them ;)