Interesting documentary from 1976

I came across this documentary from 1976 about the Spitfire. It is very interesting and telling as it contains in depth stories, interviews, and information told by the actual designers, engineers, and pilots who helped design this plane. They tell how they were able to compare it to the 109 from a German pilot who accidentally landed his 109 at a British airfield.

Their stories and accounts are very interesting indeed. What sticks with me are some of the statistics of comparison between the 109, and the spitfire. Although much of our DCS model seems to be on par with the documentary, the engineers state that the Spitfire was actually a little faster than the ME109 at any altitude. This kind of makes me think. I can't catch up with a running 109 in the DCS spitfire. Whether it's climbing, diving, or level flight. If what these guys are saying is just barely true, I should at least be able to keep up with the German planes.

Not trying to open up any cans of worms here......Just noticing the comparisons.

Anyway.....Very good documentary with great input from people who were there designing the plane.

Oh...and another great documentary from the 70's with people who designed and built the Spitfire.

Zimmerdylan, not sure if you are aware but there were several variants of Bf109 produced before and during the war. By several I mean 28-29 depending on whether you count the prototypes or not.

The 109K which is the one we have in the sim, is a late war version and it was MOST certainly faster than the Spitfire IX. I haven't watched the documentary, but if they are comparing the Spitfire IX to the 109K then that is most certainly a mistake. However if they are just saying the Spitfire was faster than the 109, without mentioning the variants, then that can be interpreted any way you like. Since depending on the variant, some Spitfires were faster than some 109s and Vice Versa.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Messerschmitt_Bf_109_variants

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supermarine_Spitfire_variants:_specifications,_performance_and_armament

Zimmerdylan, not sure if you are aware but there were several variants of Bf109 produced before and during the war. By several I mean 28-29 depending on whether you count the prototypes or not.

 

The 109K which is the one we have in the sim, is a late war version and it was MOST certainly faster than the Spitfire IX. I haven't watched the documentary, but if they are comparing the Spitfire IX to the 109K then that is most certainly a mistake. However if they are just saying the Spitfire was faster than the 109, without mentioning the variants, then that can be interpreted any way you like. Since depending on the variant, some Spitfires were faster than some 109s and Vice Versa.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Messerschmitt_Bf_109_variants

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supermarine_Spitfire_variants:_specifications,_performance_and_armament

Watch the documentary.......Judge for yourself.

Zimmer;

Point 1 - no particular variants are mentioned at all; if anything it tends to allude to Mk.I vs. 109E

Point 2 - Altitude plays a huge part when discussing max speeds; aircraft A could be faster at altitude X but aircraft B faster at altitude Y. Sometimes it is a completely moot point to compare maximum top speeds without discussing altitudes. Blanket statements that aircraft A was faster than aircraft B should definitely be taken with a pinch of salt.

Point 3 - Perception and memory is unreliable - these interviews were made 30+ years after the fact. And remember when these chaps were flying against the latest variants of 109 sometimes the intelligence they were supplied with about their foes was out of date or referred to older/different variants. They could well have been unintentionally underestimating their opponents.

Point 4 - Confidence/morale and training has as much effect on the tide of battle as narrow performance margins.

Point 5 - The build quality and reliability of late war 109s can be called into question due to the nature of their manufacture; whilst the DCS 109 hits the numbers for a factory perfect machine, the state of an actual frontline 109K could have been markedly sub-par resulting in lower performance figures. Combine this with the majority of Jagdwaffe flyers being inexperienced enough to take advantage of any performance advantages they might have had and combine this with the Point 4 being in the Allies favour then it is perhaps not surprising that the 109K is not regarded by actual allied pilots as the monster that DCS Spitfire and P-51 pilots tend to refer to.