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Finding combat next to impossible!


imacken

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I think you must know your corner speed, stall, and some very basic maneuvers to fight with the F-5. You must also know there is heavy reliance on trimming. You constantly trim. Trim!

 

Trim!

 

If you can get into a WVR, push stick to keep your speed. With practice it comes. Believe me, I cant say how many times I thought shes slow but in reality the Mig-21 is beatable in the F-5.

 

Use altitude in a turn fight to gain some speed at the bottleneck. In the vertical theyre sooo easy.

 

I usually beam them if carrying missiles. They shoot and R-3 is crappy usually. I once got one shooting directly above me where the R-3 pulled 20 Gs to catch me but hit the dirt. It was very close to correct.

 

Jink and try to dodge him but be wary of ground. Use your head on a swivel and forget about RWR. It might be good practice to play with non RWR opponents just to train for this purpose.

 

Lastly, practice practice practice and dont lose hope. It comes all of a sudden and its very rewarding that you get affixed on it.

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Thanks for all your advice here guys. Despite that, I’m going to give the F-5 a rest for a while. I just can’t make it move in a dogfight at all. So slow, and all energy just gets lost, which makes it impossible to make a fight of it with any AI bandits.

I’m trying out the Viggen, and that seems like a really interesting aircraft, and it can do banked turns without losing too much energy! So, I’ll give it a go for a while.

I’ll try coming back to the F-5 sometime in the near future!

Trust me, I know the feeling, I've tried going high, going low, smooth turns, bat turns and it has not come together for fighting AI in the practice missions yet, but I know it eventually will.

 

The airplane is so well modeled and executed I want to learn how to fight it - I've been watching tons of the Youtbue videos and part of my problem clearly is I am trying to fly it like a real fighter in a real environment - much of what you see on Youtube is completely unrealistic, running around at 20 feet and max A/B taking Fox 2 shots out of huge graceful turns at 500 KIAS, where it looks easy to maneuver into the WEZ. I think that is part of the frustration of fighting AI vs a mixed AI/PVP environment on the multiplayer servers where there is a real fog of war, imperfect SA, and bad decisions.

 

I just added Voice Attack to help with some of the switchology so that I don't have to take my hands of my HOTAS (I'm dominant right handed and using mouse in left hand is tough so I want to only do it for clickable things like radio tuning, pipper adjustments, etc.), I'll see if it helps any in combat, it is completely awesome on the ground for start up, more immersive and keeps me from having to memorize a billion keystrokes.

 

Keep at it, it will come. And try some MP, I was setting up TeamSpeak and Discord yesterday so I can venture out - if I can finger out how to use SimpleRadio I'll add it too. I know in Star Citizen the most fun I have is when multiplayer.

 

'Gimp

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+1 on getting online.

 

Get on the ACG Cold War server and go up against some MiG-21s. They have similar problems in terms of energy loss.

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Are there any youtubes showing F-5's success verses AI?

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This is a fantastic thread. I'll add my two cents based on my experience in the F-5E.

 

Regarding the F-14 scenario. You start off on his 6, and if you're quick you simply get a missile off. I never do this anymore (you don't learn anything). Otherwise, he goes vertical, which the F-14 can do in spades. I kept losing these engagements till I figured out the pattern.

 

When the F-14 goes up, keep going level and build up your speed. Track him through the top of your cockpit as he yo-yos around, then turn into him, level. The key is continuing forward so that you're directly underneath and a little past him, and you're effectively hidden. As he yo-yos around, inverting into the turn, you're no longer in his field of view. Perform your best corner turn, careful not to bleed off speed, as you'll need every ounce as he comes screaming back down. Timing is key here. He should be leveling off as you finish your 180, and you're on his 6 again. But careful as he's now probably doing 6-700 knots, and if you're too far out your AIM-9 will never reach him. Stay fast and force him to go up again, and run the same play if you need to, flying past and under him so he can't get the drop on you. But don't chase him up.

 

Otherwise, I find the F-5 works best as a skirmisher, and if you watch on youtube most F-5 pilots operate the same. A map with a solo F-5 is a dead F-5 IMO against anyone with a decent radar, but as part of a larger engagement your adversaries are going to be concerned with anyone else who's pining them with a better radar. Keep yours off and stay low. Your size and good visibility is your advantage, track targets with your RWR and get the drop on enemies who are too busy wondering who's locking them up. If you've got a friendly Eagle driver about, you can work with him to pick up bandits who he's driven to ground with AIM-7 and AIM-120 shots, they've bled energy trying to evade missiles and perfect for an F-5 to collect.

 

Hope that helps!

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Kozality

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From another post, a tip I got from a real Tiger pilot:

 

Don't fly the F-5 like you fly other fighters. Generally speaking using both ailerons and elevators together is like flying through mud, so keep the wings clean and combine rudder+elevator to point the nose where you need it to go. If the bastard is insistent, add some opposite aileron to pull a high-G roll and make that overshoot happen.

 

I cannot stress how much of a difference this makes in handling, particularly at slower speeds. You need to get the timing right, generally speaking bring the rudder back to the middle almost a second before where you want the nose to stop. You can make very sudden reversals at a relatively minor speed penalty.

 

The Tiger can be very stable at higher angles of attack but it likes to go there too often, so be mindful of how much you pull otherwise it will bleed a lot of speed.

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From another post, a tip I got from a real Tiger pilot:

 

 

 

I cannot stress how much of a difference this makes in handling, particularly at slower speeds. You need to get the timing right, generally speaking bring the rudder back to the middle almost a second before where you want the nose to stop. You can make very sudden reversals at a relatively minor speed penalty.

 

The Tiger can be very stable at higher angles of attack but it likes to go there too often, so be mindful of how much you pull otherwise it will bleed a lot of speed.

Great tip Lucas,

 

I started using a lot more rudder when trying to shake a pursuer, but I haven't got that timing right. The high G loop with cross control is interesting. Will give that a go.

 

Cheers!

 

 

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I've seen some weird AI behavior, and a graphical problem.

 

The AI seems to have better acceleration and more drag than I do, as well as significantly improved turning rate. My speed is good and I know how hard to pull without pulling too much.

 

I set the AI to "good".

 

I had one engagement where we were at the merge, I padlocked*** him, and he wasn't physically on the screen. We must have passed with a half-mile.

 

*** I started using padlock as I have noticed other aircraft actually physically disappear off the screen. I have managed to find video of this ocurring, too, so I know it isn't isolated to my system.

 

Unfortunately I do not have video of the ghost encounter I had. I know the aircraft was there as he was pinging my RWR and was set to engage at that location. Padlock "saw" him too, but I had nothing. I just turned around anyway, and when he got within a couple of thousand feet of me he just appeared.

 

I'm no novice at dog-fighting - I used to compete in Falcon.

 

Nothing has never made me as insanely crazy as DCS during dog-fighting. Visually acquiring targets is not only hard in DCS, but apparently buggy as well. :(

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Could be my words. I never learned how to fight with F-5. Watched some tiger training videos, and it looked like we were flying a different jet. I also bought the BFM campaign, but got nowhere with it, so I uninstalled the plane, got so frustreted. Now I’m happy with my Spit and M2K.

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