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Just tried taxiing the Su-27 in Vaziani and it's really next to impossible to turn on those narrow taxiways without leaving the paved surface.

 

Slow down then :D

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Notice that the nose wheel in most cases is behind the pilot so the front end of your plane on the ground is actually also behind you. Try to imagine it while taxing. Try single player with 3th person view. Some practice and you will be taxing Spitfire through the smallest taxiways in DCS ;)

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Wow! Nine pages of "I get stuck in the grass because DCS made the taxiways too narrow." Is the SU-27 spawning at that airfield during a mission or on a multiplayer server? If it is, then the the mission or MP server must be changed to a different airfield that can support the SU-27. I'd suggest that it isn't the fault of DCS if an airplane is spawned on an airfield that's too small for it. You wouldn't try to taxi, takeoff, or land a B-52 at a regional airfield would you? Look at the Airbus 380, there are many international airports in the U.S. (and the world) that can't handle that airplane. Do you try to use one that isn't suitable, or do you just use the ones that are? Don't blame DCS; blame whoever decided to spawn the SU-27 at that airfield.

 

BTW, after I learned to taxi, I haven't ever run off the taxiway with an F-86, MiG-15, F-5, P-51, Spitfire, or FW-190 (even with the differential braking). I sometimes do run off the taxiway in a Huey or Gazelle, but that's just because I suck at taxiing those helicopters.

 

Give it a rest!


Edited by Balzarog
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When all else fails, READ THE INSTRUCTIONS!

 

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It should be simple: If its rainy, make it muddy, soaky, whatever, let the wheels swim and stuck.. if its dry and clear make it harder as it should be. Taxiways on hangar exit should be wider anyway, at least as plane (Su25) wingspan, some are even made of hardened soil. Its too easy to get stuck on that narrow taxiways and its not a matter of taxing proficiency or complicated differential braking, it just ain't right. Sometimes taxing in Su27 looks like driving a cabover truck on Italian oldtown narrow roads. It shouldn't.

 

Actually Taxiways, runways and lighting etc. should be as they are in real life. For some airfileds in Georgia it means narrow taxiways that demand attention from the pilot and careful handling.

 

If real life pilots can manage difficult conditions, so can we.

 

Next, the issue of "soaky wet" or "hard and dry" soil... The max Take off weight of a Su-27 is about 30,400 kg (67,000 lb) that is 30 tons!!! the wheels are how big? So you do think a grassy meadow will support 30 tons balancing on three 20cm poles?

 

The Su-25 has 19,3 tons max T/O weight, the A-10C 23 tons. There are multiple incidents noted IRL where aircraft rolled over the end of a runway / taxiway and got stuck in the grass.

 

It is nothing "unrealistic" or "wrong". You are simply required to remember "grass is no-no" and steer carefully. Problem solved. :smartass:

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Erm, thanx, I know that. Never had problems with planes where the nosewheel is located far behind the pilot IRL. e.g. the 767.

 

Again, IMHO you simply can't use a few taxiways in DCS with larger planes. The toy sized Spitfire has nothing to do with this problem.

 

Just to make sure, the normal taxiways in the vicinity of the runways aren't the problem for e.g. Su-27. It's e.g. the very narrow ones at Vaziani in the north of the airfield. (Try to taxi to the runway from parking spot 25)

 

Accepted your challenge! Came home from company Christmas party after several glasses of wine. Not my best taxiing performance but made it from Vaziani 25 to runway without serious problems and more than 5kts. I would expect a sober RL SU-27 pilot would be able to do the same (just a little bit more professional :lol:)

 

I hope the track plays correct...

taxi.trk


Edited by FSKRipper

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Accepted your challenge! Came home from company Christmas party after several glasses of wine. Not my best taxiing performance but made it from Vaziani 25 to runway without serious problems. I would expect a sober RL SU-27 would be able to do the same (just a little bit more professional :lol:)

 

I hope the track plays correct...

 

:megalol::D

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In meantime I would like admin o change topic title to moderate version like "Difficult taxing in narrow taxiways"

 

The thing is, you should contact them. Look at the forum section this topic is in, and below the list of threads you'll find the currently active moderators for this section. Pick any one of them and write a PM.

 

Ok, lets start.

 

Gudauta:

[...]

Vaziani

[...]

Sochi

[...]

 

Note the RL non existing and heavily packed shelters.

 

Now that's something to work with, thanks!

 

I see your point that parts of these airports seem to be modeled with a bit of artistic license, though I'm not sure if they actually looked like they do in DCS at some point in the past.

 

OTOH, I also see lots of really narrow taxiways on the Google Earth images, and some shelters that are placed at these harsh 90° angles to their taxiways. I'd be surprised if Russians and Georgians ever operated large planes like the Su-27 out of them.

 

Ultimately what it comes down to is: You think DCS is bugged in this regard. I use my imagination and when I get stuck in the mud, I imagine it used to rain for days just before my flight. Since I prefer missions with relatively realistic loadouts, I also usually start from parking slots that make sense for that airframe, and if that's not the case, most mission designers are very approachable when it is explained to them that certain parking spots don't make that much sense. Otherwise, on to the next mission. Problem solved.

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Conclusion:

- All taxiway-taxiway or taxiway-runway junctions have fillet corners with sufficient radius as seen on previous GE pictures.

- No concrete shelter is ever placed directly on taxiway in 90° fashion without taxiway buffer zone.

 

 

Except of course for Vaziani - which has several with just that (& no fillet).

 

GE_Vaz_RSh_02.jpg

Cheers.

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what is kind of strange is some aircraft, Russian come to mind, that can handle off road takeoff, landings... because of construction of the landing gear for very bad conditions... it does depend on the dirt, mud, etc... and type of aircraft. I know a little about aircraft and moving them... we used to push a B-52 off of the ground cable, as the B-52 fills with 50,000 gallons of fuel, it is so heavy the tires expand quite abit, and often, if the ground cable are not far enough away from the wheels the planes eventually sits on those cable. only way to retrieve the cables and equipment is to move the aircraft off of the cables. We often would push the aircraft off the cable with our hands alone. I do think the resistance is a bit much in the sim. But, like others say, they should not be off road. The FOD problem, possible damage from being off road and the airframe, and landing gear, etc... plus, and angry commanding officer for a bad pilot. I guess the argument is mute because the powers that be will probably just say live with it as they work on more pressing issues.

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only way to retrieve the cables and equipment is to move the aircraft off of the cables. We often would push the aircraft off the cable with our hands alone.

 

Please elaborate. How many people did it take and exactly where did you put your hands to push a B-52? Fuel and ordnance load?

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The topic was initiated by fact that Mig15 with 50% of fuel got suck on grass. Mig15 weights (empty) 3580kg + 50% of fuel (710 kg) = 4290Kg (4440kg) total (pilot and guns ammo is about 150kg?). Wheel weight distribution goes something like 80% main wheels and 20% nose wheel (I assume) so it goes like nose wheel takes 888kg and each main wheel 1776kg per each tire. Should it stuck on dry weather on dirt or grass?

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The topic was initiated by fact that Mig15 with 50% of fuel got suck on grass. Mig15 weights (empty) 3580kg + 50% of fuel (710 kg) = 4290Kg (4440kg) total (pilot and guns ammo is about 150kg?). Wheel weight distribution goes something like 80% main wheels and 20% nose wheel (I assume) so it goes like nose wheel takes 888kg and each main wheel 1776kg per each tire. Should it stuck on dry weather on dirt or grass?

 

WHY?! WHO CARES?! FLY THE PLANE!

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Well, sure, stick it on that taxiway, that's completely fine, I agree. Problem is when you have MP server with randomly placed slots that places you in that tightly packed shelters. Can't do much about that, right? Mig15 has slow spool up time and needs inertia to effectively use differential braking as it has no NWS. Even eased with 50% fuel still gets stuck when exiting that tight shelters that have like 25m facing door to door on crossing that non filleted junctions. I'm just stroking that ED should fix that in a way that either makes some taxiway line in that spots or hardens a soil around a bit. Simple as that. :thumbup:

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Well, sure, stick it on that taxiway, that's completely fine, I agree. Problem is when you have MP server with randomly placed slots that places you in that tightly packed shelters. Can't do much about that, right? Mig15 has slow spool up time and needs inertia to effectively use differential braking as it has no NWS. Even eased with 50% fuel still gets stuck when exiting that tight shelters that have like 25m facing door to door on crossing that non filleted junctions. I'm just stroking that ED should fix that in a way that either makes some taxiway line in that spots or hardens a soil around a bit. Simple as that. :thumbup:

 

barking up the wrong tree mate...devs aren't going to change the experience for one pilot's bad time- just saying...

 

EDIT: Maybe you should work on your timing...:music_whistling:


Edited by DoomEngine
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The are about to release that new Caucasus map soon and I aim that they will fix that shelter arrangement and make fillets on junctions as it should so that we all, new and old pilots, have less trouble taxing where we actually could in RL to make this simulator better. :pilotfly:

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If this was on ED's list? and especially just for you of course jackmckay, it would be item number 1576.

 

There are many other areas of DCS the dev's would love to work on, perhaps even this one? there's many you yourself have criticized ED on. This is a business and the show must go on, playing around with things like this would be icing on the cake.

 

Relax

 

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The topic was initiated by fact that Mig15 with 50% of fuel got suck on grass. Mig15 weights (empty) 3580kg + 50% of fuel (710 kg) = 4290Kg (4440kg) total (pilot and guns ammo is about 150kg?). Wheel weight distribution goes something like 80% main wheels and 20% nose wheel (I assume) so it goes like nose wheel takes 888kg and each main wheel 1776kg per each tire. Should it stuck on dry weather on dirt or grass?

Yes. 880kg on 20 squarecm ground contact through the tire? That's roundabout 44 kg/cm... Try putting a 1cm diameter stick on the lawn, put fourtyfour tetra packs of milk (1litre = 1kg each) on top and see what happens. :detective:

 

Should give a definitive answer.

Shagrat

 

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