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Razbam DCS MiG-19P Development Update #2


OverStratos

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. This is in fact one of only two "Eastern" module in official development.

 

Mig-15bis

Mig-21bis

Mi-8

Mi-24

 

we need more eastern stuff.

The only way to make sense out of change is to plunge into it, move with it, and join the dance.

"Me, the 13th Duke of Wybourne, here on the ED forums at 3 'o' clock in the morning, with my reputation. Are they mad.."

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One question : why only Migs ? Arent there interesting" western " jets too ?

 

Uuhhh say what now??

 

Number of currently released & in development or confirmed in plans aircraft combined for "West" vs "East" compared:

 

West: 38

East : 16

 

If we add "may be" projects that may or may not get proper releases, but are still somewhat likely, numbers become.

 

West: 47

East : 19

 

It is also worth pointing out that 6 of the "red side" entries are FC3 level, not full DCS modules, while only 2 (3 depending on what you consider as FC3) of the bule ones are FC3 level simulations.

 

More, and more, and much more MiGs, sukhoise etc are very, very wellcome at this point.

Wishlist: F-4E Block 53 +, MiG-27K, Su-17M3 or M4, AH-1F or W circa 80s or early 90s, J35 Draken, Kfir C7, Mirage III/V

DCS-Dismounts Script

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Mig-15bis

Mig-21bis

Mi-8

Mi-24

All but the Mi-24 and MiG-19 were already released, I'm sorry if my wording was unclear. At any rate, there are only two new Eastern aircraft on the horizon, not counting modules which didn't get a licence yet.

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I am only looking what is realy in final progress or ready to buy... i don t fly due to political preferences, i like the mig 21, the 29 su 33... wonderful planes, shure will get the mig 15 someday... but i don t know why there is not a fiat g91 a alpha jet, not to speak about tornado... realy very interesting european planes,not longer in service, no probs with classified info... a british lightning would be great to...

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Draken, Jaguar, Tornado, Mirage F-1 and perhaps Mirage III/V would be among the things I look forward to a lot. I am also looking forward to A-4, A-6 and A-7. The F-4 is at this point, the thing I am anticipating with most excitement. Viggen is one of my favorite modules. However, we just really have a good shortage of "red" modules, and I really love those aircraft as well.

 

Even if we only look at what is currently released, we have 17 "western" with 7 of them being from USA and 10 of them from Europe, versus 11 "eastern", 9 Russian/Soviet and 2 different versions of L-39. But, like I've said above, this gap will only widen with upcoming releases. At this point, MiG-19P and Mi-24P are the only confirmed Russian aircraft that are in dev. Tu-22M3, JF-17 and I-16 may also come at some point, or may be not...

 

I would love to see Su-17/22, MiG-23, MiG-25, MiG-27, Su-24 etc as well.

 

So yes, I agree that there are other cool aircraft to get from just about any part of the world too, but when you put it like "why only migs?", it doesn't aligng with neither current, nor the future reality of situation with the sim.

Wishlist: F-4E Block 53 +, MiG-27K, Su-17M3 or M4, AH-1F or W circa 80s or early 90s, J35 Draken, Kfir C7, Mirage III/V

DCS-Dismounts Script

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This 'imbalance' is a real sucker for MP. FC3 is just boring, and the MiG-21bis requires good GCI to work properly against modern things. So MiG-23 pretty please? Oh wait, yeah...

 

You see just wanting anything doesn't make it a plausible module to be developed and sold. We are not going to see a 4th gen RED fighter, just like we are not going to see a BLUE attack (not including light attack) helo or Japanese/Russian WW2 bird. The gaps are just not gonna get filled, no matter how much we want them to be. MP is going to have to stay 'imbalanced' and FC3 heavy.

 

That's how the things work around here if you are looking short term. Now long term is a different story. But long term is not now, maybe somewhere 5 years down the line.

DCS: MiG-23

[sIGPIC]

[/sIGPIC]

Make it happen, and take my money! :D

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I am only looking what is realy in final progress or ready to buy... i don t fly due to political preferences, i like the mig 21, the 29 su 33... wonderful planes, shure will get the mig 15 someday... but i don t know why there is not a fiat g91 a alpha jet, not to speak about tornado... realy very interesting european planes,not longer in service, no probs with classified info... a british lightning would be great to...

 

Personally I think Fiat G91 would be a pretty niche aircraft. Its primarily a Subsonic Recon ( photography) plane with a Secondary capability as a "light attack jet" It really cant carry that much ordinance and is a analog plane, and even the Gun sight is a Fixed sight with only depressible options, and worse off than a F86 sabre because its not even a Gyro sight like on the MIg15 , let alone a radar ranging sight like on the Sabre. So for any air combat ( even Defenseive) its at a disadvantage compared to performance of the Korean era war birds not even mentioning the more sopshisticated Aircraft of comparable time frame, which would have been mostly supersonic jets. Its no wonder that some potential buyers of the G91 that were looking to employ it to for an attack role ( like Greece) opted out of it and instead went with F-5 Freedom fighters and/or later follow up purchases with the F-5E tiger 2 which offered a much more flexible option as a platform as it could serve as ( still economical) Tactical Fighter/bomber.

 

G91Y has better flight performance than the initial R series, but Its only Italian and Avionics are also largely comparable. Despite those performance improvements its pretty dated compared other aircraft of its era for a role outside of recon.

 

Alpha Jet would actually be more worthwhile of the two because Albeit its a Trainer jet ( Depending on which nation its was dedicated light attacker like that of the West German Luftwaffe) it would be at least useful for strike, and give a more early-ish 4th gen experience because of a HUD, ( which includes CCIP assisted bombing solutions) and a RWR.

 

That and if developed the alpha jet would potentially be the first subsonic trainer/ light attacker jet to actually have better performance ( Minus top speed) compared to the korean warbirds.


Edited by Kev2go

 

Build:

 

Windows 10 64 bit Pro

Case/Tower: Corsair Graphite 760tm ,Asus Strix Z790 Motherboard, Intel Core i7 12700k ,Corsair Vengeance LPX DDR4 64gb ram (3600 mhz) , (Asus strix oc edition) Nvidia RTX 3080 12gb , Evga g2 850 watt psu, Hardrives ; Samsung 970 EVo, , Samsung evo 860 pro 1 TB SSD, Samsung evo 850 pro 1TB SSD,  WD 1TB HDD

 

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The MiG 19 will be a great Cold War addition to the DCS lineup a little slower and more maneuverable than the 21. The skies will be interesting with the combo of early Soviet birds. It will be a fun compliment to the F5, Viggen, and later the F4e.

Modules: A10C, AV8, M2000C, AJS-37, MiG-21, MiG-19, MiG-15, F86F, F5E, F14A/B, F16C, F18C, P51, P47, Spitfire IX, Bf109K, Fw190-D, UH-1, Ka-50, SA342 Gazelle, Mi8, Christian Eagle II, CA, FC3

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I am only looking what is realy in final progress or ready to buy... i don t fly due to political preferences, i like the mig 21, the 29 su 33... wonderful planes, shure will get the mig 15 someday... but i don t know why there is not a fiat g91 a alpha jet, not to speak about tornado... realy very interesting european planes,not longer in service, no probs with classified info... a british lightning would be great to...

 

Tornado is the most "fitting" plane for DCS now i think, i would like to fly it very much, G.91 is a very very interesting aircraft and i really hope someone one day will make it, Lightning is an interesting module as well but Alphajet is only a trainer, we already have in DCS some but we need more "firing things" (i know it has ground attack cababilities but it is first of all a trainer).

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Tornado is the most "fitting" plane for DCS now i think, i would like to fly it very much, G.91 is a very very interesting aircraft and i really hope someone one day will make it, Lightning is an interesting module as well but Alphajet is only a trainer, we already have in DCS some but we need more "firing things" (i know it has ground attack cababilities but it is first of all a trainer).

 

 

Alpha jet is not just a trainer. It certainly would count as a "firing things" because it has ground attack capability and( depending on which user has been in service for that purpose instead of a trainer) People really seem to have a problem over Semantics especially over anything with a specfic label that the react with disgust to ( Ewww trainer)

 

Germany for EG employed it as a dedicated light attacker and not as a mere trainer.

 

http://www.avialogs.com/en/aircraft/europe-and-consortiums/dassault-dornier/alpha-jet/gaf-to-1f-ajet-1-flight-manual-alpha-jet.html

 

Even so its actually more capable than the G91 despite that not being a trainer . Even the Alpha jet A has More ordinance carry and It has a radar warning reciever, and HUD with CCIP modes. Its not technical marvel or Intended to be a performance counterpart , but those 2 technologies at least make it viable and relevant for its introduction of serivce for its role as aLight Attack/ CLose air support jet. Ordinance aside, the Alpha jet has far higher performance jet than the G91. Some of the versions have Aim9 and AGM65 Maverick capability added on.

 

G91 may have the benefit of not having users argue over the semantics of label "trainer" but its far less capable and usefull than the alpha jet would ever be, and arguably less interesting because its a niche aircraft far more so than the Alpha jet would be as a so called "trainer" . Hence why We should avoid the Labels and consider to compare what aircraft are actually capable of.

 

. It's a Subsonic recon plane ( photo cameras) with some very limited attack capability for the Nations that It was primarily used by ( Italy and Germany) While it did meet its Nato requirements for a Light Strike fighter ( very modest) Its basically a early 50s jet tech in that entered service at the end of the 50s in a era of Supersonic fighters. . It did not become mass adopted the NAto Standard fighter as it had expected it to be. Some nations that required more of an attacker than recon opted out of it and went for more capable aircraft that could better meet tactical bomber and Both fighter needs ( Ie Greece Buying the F5 freedom fighter instead)

 

other nations like France pursed thier own projects ( like the Super Etendard), and England found it more practical to just Continue to to produce the Hunter series that whislt no longer a top fighter could still fill thier tactical attack ( and export market) needs instead of adopting the G91.

 

IMO it was an overrated Aircraft that was arguably obsolete the day it entered service since surplus Aircraft that were former Prime fighter/bombers could still fill the "light attacK/CAS" role as a economical export options in an era of Supersonics.

 

SO in short Alpha jet despite a trainer, ( or light CAS depending on nation) , would still arguably be more fun and more useful in DCS than the G91 would be. It just offers more overall.


Edited by Kev2go

 

Build:

 

Windows 10 64 bit Pro

Case/Tower: Corsair Graphite 760tm ,Asus Strix Z790 Motherboard, Intel Core i7 12700k ,Corsair Vengeance LPX DDR4 64gb ram (3600 mhz) , (Asus strix oc edition) Nvidia RTX 3080 12gb , Evga g2 850 watt psu, Hardrives ; Samsung 970 EVo, , Samsung evo 860 pro 1 TB SSD, Samsung evo 850 pro 1TB SSD,  WD 1TB HDD

 

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Alpha jet is not just a trainer. It certainly would count as a "firing things" because it has ground attack capability and( depending on which user has been in service for that purpose instead of a trainer) People really seem to have a problem over Semantics especially over anything with a specfic label that the react with disgust to ( Ewww trainer)

 

Germany for EG employed it as a dedicated light attacker and not as a mere trainer.

 

http://www.avialogs.com/en/aircraft/europe-and-consortiums/dassault-dornier/alpha-jet/gaf-to-1f-ajet-1-flight-manual-alpha-jet.html

 

Even so its actually more capable than the G91 despite that not being a trainer . Even the Alpha jet A has More ordinance carry and It has a radar warning reciever, and HUD with CCIP modes. Its not technical marvel or Intended to be a performance counterpart , but those 2 technologies at least make it viable and relevant for its introduction of serivce for its role as aLight Attack/ CLose air support jet. Ordinance aside, the Alpha jet has far higher performance jet than the G91. Some of the versions have Aim9 and AGM65 Maverick capability added on.

 

G91 may have the benefit of not having users argue over the semantics of label "trainer" but its far less capable and usefull than the alpha jet would ever be, and arguably less interesting because its a niche aircraft far more so than the Alpha jet would be as a so called "trainer" . Hence why We should avoid the Labels and consider to compare what aircraft are actually capable of.

 

. It's a Subsonic recon plane ( photo cameras) with some very limited attack capability for the Nations that It was primarily used by ( Italy and Germany) While it did meet its Nato requirements for a Light Strike fighter ( very modest) Its basically a early 50s jet tech in that entered service at the end of the 50s in a era of Supersonic fighters. . It did not become mass adopted the NAto Standard fighter as it had expected it to be. Some nations that required more of an attacker than recon opted out of it and went for more capable aircraft that could better meet tactical bomber and Both fighter needs ( Ie Greece Buying the F5 freedom fighter instead)

 

other nations like France pursed thier own projects ( like the Super Etendard), and England found it more practical to just Continue to to produce the Hunter series that whislt no longer a top fighter could still fill thier tactical attack ( and export market) needs instead of adopting the G91.

 

IMO it was an overrated Aircraft that was arguably obsolete the day it entered service since surplus Aircraft that were former Prime fighter/bombers could still fill the "light attacK/CAS" role as a economical export options in an era of Supersonics.

 

SO in short Alpha jet despite a trainer, ( or light CAS depending on nation) , would still arguably be more fun and more useful in DCS than the G91 would be. It just offers more overall.

 

1) I didn't know Alphajet has RWR, i thought the only '70/'80 trainer which has it was the mb.339CD, in this case it's ok, it's not a lethal weapon like an A-10 but it has some interesting capabilities (i never said i wouldn't like it).

 

2) The G.91 was born obsolete, yes i admit it, but I talked with several italian G.91 pilot and they said all the same thing, it was assigned to the wrong role.

Pilots who flew on F-86 said it was incredible at low speed AoA turn, very agile and very easy to manuver, so it was a turnfighter used as a CAS aircraft (a similar thing happened with F-111), to compensate low armament and low thrust there was the Y version.

 

So i'm interested in the G.91 but using it for what it does better, it would be interesting a dogfight between Mig-15, F-86 and G.91 don't you think?

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The Fiat is probably not popular enough to be developped but I must admit that I’d love to see it in game as I would not be here if this plane had not saved my father’s ass several times during conflict in Africa.

 

/sentimentalism

 

Edit : I just realized I’m OT, sorry about that, feel free to delete my post dear mod.


Edited by 33-DFTC

There are only two types of aircraft, fighters and targets. - Major Doyle "Wahoo" Nicholson, USMC

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