US CCs and DDs do not uses missiles against airborne ASM

As the title says... The OHP, Ticonderoga and Burke do not use any type of missiles to defend them selves from incoming Anti-Ship Missiles, which have been launched from aircraft. Range does not matter even if they have detected them at a longer range and altitude. They only rely on CIWS and most times CIWS is not capable of defending them.

US DDs and CCs No missiles.trk

Bump

Appears to ignore the KH-35 and AK-802, but others are intercepted.

I decided to test myself with 84Ds and Viggen missiles (as I remember the AI not reacting to them at all) as if any of the behavior should be correct, it should be the towards the ones which can be launched by players.

Surprisingly enough, they did engage with missiles, which took me by surprise.

Then I only used an OHP, as that is the ship I've tested in the past and as I remembered, the other two types of ships might engage with SM2, but the OHP does not. Neither the 84D nor the RF-15F (not even going to try the C-802AK)

More interestingly, don't know what it is about the Viggen missiles, but although the CIWS would engage them, even from far range, it can never shoot one down, seems like they either tank the bullets or they somehow always get missed, even tho they are quite the wide missiles

In general, most JF-17 weapons seems to have such values, that make them unreasonably good against ships and SAMs.... They definitely need checking, seems like most of them have a super low RCS and ships and SAMs (like the Patriot) either have a very hard time detecting them if at all and when they do (in the case of the patriot) they seem to need 10-15 missiles per one anti-ship/radiation missile to destroy them, as they just miss

I've made a couple of threads here on similar issues, I hope they will get some traction

OHP NO SM2 at RB, CIWS NO HIT.trk

OHP NO SM2 at 84D.trk

A Tico/Burke should be capable of defending against a simultaneous 20 missile raid all by itself, even against relatively low RCS missiles.

A single PATRIOT might be just a little less capable especially if it's not packing PAC-3s, but then it's a lot easier to deploy multiple PATRIOTs.

I don't think the problem strictly reflects the settings on the missiles themselves, like, if a missile has a 0.2m^2 RCS, that would be detectable at over 20nm, and certainly as it comes over the horizon if it's a sea-skimmer.

But, any data-link that might allow the missile seeker to deal with the low RCS might not be simulated at all.

Funnily enough, CM-802AKGs (same shape as C-802AK) is engaged by Patriot in-game, but non of the US ships can engage them with missiles. Supposedly those ships have more advanced radars than the Patriot we have ?

Is it the weapon RCS ? I don't know... there are a lot of similarly shaped weapons which are being engaged.... It might just be a case of AI radars needing an adjustment.

The whole layered umbrella defense doctrine is missing from the ships.

A ship, any warship, is a formidable opponent against any aircraft.

Take the OHP for example, it'll engage from 40Nm out with its SM-1 or SM-2, depending on missile type and detection ofcourse. If that fails, it will follow up with the 76mm gun system, failing that, CIWS as a last resort.

Other ships may have the Nato Seasparrow in between the SM-1 or 2 and the cannon / gun.

Regardless, you don't just fire one SSM at a ship and expect it to hit, that's unlikely to happen. You'll need to saturate its defenses in order to score hits.

I would fully expect a ship, either integrated into a sensor datalink network, such as Link-11/14/16 as any Allied warship would be, or use its own sensors, to detect and intercept any SSM fired at it with all the weapon systems it has available and not wait for the SSM to come into CIWS range and just spray and pray.

Funny.... soo you see my post where I say that US ships do actually engage the Harpoon...

Well, guess what.... ONLY the AGM-84D has a "reflection"(RCS) of 0.16 according to the game files....

All other types of the AGM-84 platform have 0.08 "reflection" meaning.... US ships can only engage the one launched by players in the Hornet..... all other types, like the AGM-84S (or even A), which is launched from another ship, cannot be engaged with missiles.

The AGM-84E (SLAM) also has a "reflection" of 0.08.

The CIWS engaged one single AGM-84S and then stopped defending.

Ground based systems like the S-300 and Patriot can engage them

The SLAM has a slightly bigger diameter than a Harpoon so the RCS would be comparable if not a little bit larger.

The HARM is a bit smaller so its RCS would be a bit smaller.

The NATO doctrine against ASMs is one of early detection and corrolation (emitter vs. launching platform), like in the Falklands where a Cyrano radar from a Super Etendard would be corrolated with the Exocet missile.

Once corrolated, measures are taken to detect or predict a launch and take appropiate actions such as manouvrer to intercept or decrease radar signature, Chaff (SRBOC), jamming/deception or hard-kill.

I guess we'll need to change those RCS values and see what happens...

So, after the update OHP still doesn't engage neither HARPOON, nor C-802AK with SM-2.

Other US ships do engage Harpoons, but not C-802AK

I am glad to report that now all US ships, including the OHP do engage C-802AKs with SM-2 missiles.

Ticon and Burke do engage Harpoons, with SM-2 as well, but the OHP (as well as Patriot) does NOT. The Harpoon and C-802AK seem to have the same body shape and size overall.

Oh, here is a track I recorded, which had some interesting stuff happen in it.

OHP CIWSed a couple of the incoming Harpoons, until they ran out of ammo, or at least it seemed se.... The rest of the Harpoons all missed and flew passed the ships and created some interesting aerobatics.

Harpoon.trk