Getting into helicopters

I am contemplating getting into helicopters in DCS but have a few questions before...

 

1) Can you properly operate a helicopter with a HOTAS? It doesn't really resemble a cyclic stick so we can we properly simulate this using a HOTAS or is dedicated hardware for helis required?

 

2) I'd love to do some search and rescue missions with a heli. Is this possible in DCS or are they more focussed on search and destroy?

If it's possible, what heli in DCS is more tailored towards SAR operations?

 

3) Aren't a lot of the helis in DCS crew operated? Where you have a pilot and perhaps someone in the back firing some guns? How does that work in DCS? Are these operated by AI? Can these be operated by people in multiplayer as well?

 

And finally... Some good recommendations on what heli to start with?

1. Yes, you can use a HOTAS. I do.

 

2. UH-1 or MI-8.

 

3. Ehh, yes and no. Most of them there's not really so much that they can't be soloed, and for the most part either you or an AI perform essential functions, but for the most part it's you.

 

Exception : Gazelle, which can have a second human.

 

Finally : Any heli, they're all awesome. Especially in VR. I was playing VR in fixed wing, and it was fun. Then I flew the Ka-50 in VR, and haven't looked back. They each have their own appeal. Huey is relatively nimble, Mi-8 is big and stable, Ka-50 is an attack heli, Gazelle is a modernish scout heli. Each has very different handling and capabilities. You'll just need to research them to see which one sounds most interesting to you.

Pretty much what zhukov said. The only thing I would add to #2 is that SAR requires some mission editor/scripting experience depending on how in depth you want to go. By default you cannot pick up downed pilots for example, but you can plop an ai soldier down and have them embark to your helo with some advanced way point options.

Second what the others say.

For the HOTAS many reverse the throttle axis to make it more "natural". Also, there are some not too expensive collectives for sale.

Quite a few free SAR missions around at v the user files, and even one multi-player server is dedicated to it. Lots of fun!

 

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cool, awesome to hear :)

 

I am looking to get into the mission editor more detailed so I don't mind scripting. I'm a software engineer by trade so that's no issue.

 

Glad to see that everything I was hoping for, is possible.

I am contemplating getting into helicopters in DCS but have a few questions before...

 

1) Can you properly operate a helicopter with a HOTAS?

 

Yes, though often players mod their sticks to have less spring force.

 

A work around some modules use is to use the "Force Trim" button to set the physical sticks spring center equal to an offset cyclic position in the simulator.

 

Some form of rudder/yaw control is a "must", I manage using with a twist stick but a good set of pedals is preferred.

 

2) I'd love to do some search and rescue missions with a heli. Is this possible in DCS or are they more focussed on search and destroy?

CSAR is a common DCS mission and usually involves flying to an area (perhaps using ADF), and searching for a smoke marker where you'll hover/land to pickup downed/injured pilots and then return them to a base/hospital.

 

If it's possible, what heli in DCS is more tailored towards SAR operations?

 

Both the Huey and Mi-8 are good choices, though ANY helicopter can be programmed if the triggers/script is adjusted to allow it i.e. the Gazelle

 

3) Aren't a lot of the helis in DCS crew operated? Where you have a pilot and perhaps someone in the back firing some guns? How does that work in DCS? Are these operated by AI?

Both the Huey and Mi-8 have AI gunners and pilot operated weapons. The AI can be given ROE's Hold Fire, Return Fire and Weapons Free or given control of the helicopter i.e. to hover/orbit while the player "switches" to the door gunner, etc.

 

The AI is subject to DCS's usual AI issues i.e. the Huey's co-pilot mini-gun has issues ATM.

 

The Gazelle doesn't have an AI crew member but does have an autopilot that'll hold a hover position while the player fires a HOT3 missiles from co-pilot seat or the minigun from the door.

 

The Ka-50 is a single crew Attack Helicopter, so has no AI crew but does have a complex autopilot and can command wingmen, etc.

 

Can these be operated by people in multiplayer as well?

 

Short answer NO, long answer follows (perhaps some day) :-

 

The Gazelle retains some multicrew functionality but I'm not sure how well it's working (co-pilot flight controls were disabled in 2.5.2).

 

ED are working on multicrew for the Huey co-pilot minigun but we're not sure when we'll get to see it.

 

And finally... Some good recommendations on what heli to start with?

 

Huey or Mi-8.

 

The Mi-8 is perhaps the better helicopter but as it's a three man crew with lots of systems/switches (15 min startup), I'd advise starting out with the Huey where you can focus on the flying, rather than "systems".

Edited September 10, 2020 by Ramsay

One more thing! Go shopping for Microsoft SideWinder Force Feedback 2 joystick as soon as you possibly can!!! You will never regret it!

 

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As food for thought, if you have a HOTAS with dual engine throttle input(s) (ie: al la Warthog) then you can split the throttle, reverse the axis and use one as the throttle and one as a collective. (This works ok for me).

 

Helicopters give a whole new perspective to the game that is very exciting and enjoyable.

Happy flying!

I've got the X56 so that has dual throttle that I can split up so that's good. I use that split setup in the P51 where I use one for the throttle and one for the RPM.

I also have the saitek rudder pedals so I'm good for the hardware I guess.

 

Will probably need to spend a lot of time to setup the controls but that's a one time job...

 

Are the training missions good for the Huey? I used those for other modules and liked them as they are interactive and I can follow along. It's better with VR as you can't easily follow a YT tutorial while in VR...

 

I've got little to none experience with ADF navigation. I've got hundreds of hours in the Cessna in FSX and P3D but never used ADF and was always using omnidirectional beacons for navigation or simple VFR navigation.

I read up on it, but just never used it.

 

Think I'll go for the huey :)

I switch out my warthog for my MSFFB2 when I jump into the Huey, Mi-8 or the Ka-50. There are no stick forces when holding the trim button, and it puts the new "center" of spring forces where you leave it when you let go. As far as the collective, I invert the Z axis of my warthog throttle and it does the job well enough for my liking.

 

I've recently tried flying the Huey without FFB and it just felt so lackluster and more difficult compared to my experience with my MSFFB2.

 

I really wish force feedback sticks could make a comeback.. or that Microsoft would just release a new plastic stick with way more buttons and update the software for it to work in win10.

I was about to post and say lucky the immersion patent expired so it won’t be long. But that’s still really long and I just got the idea of sticking a realsim blue tooth stick on mine, too bad it can’t do heavy sticks. What’s that second MSFFB doing here? Oh god my ambition will kill me

Hehe! Well, there's another thread on this forum of a new Chinese one. I'm sure many of you have seen it. But according to the developer it will only be available in China at the moment, and prise will be around USD 1100 IIRC.

But what's interesting, is a new YT video of a few weeks back, that looks really interesting.

Me? I think I will mod my FFB2 as "hard" as I can, because I want TM and Virpil grips on a long extension.

 

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I have TM hotas warthog but I can't fly helis with this stick so I got a MSFFB and I can't be happier. (well maybe I would be happier with a comodo sim set lol)

What makes the MSFFB so good for helis? It's just a joystick, right? So why would that be better than the joystick from my X56... I don't get..

Plus, I can't seem to find the joystick anywere... not on ebay, shops,... :P

What makes the MSFFB so good for helis? It's just a joystick, right? So why would that be better than the joystick from my X56... I don't get..

Plus, I can't seem to find the joystick anywere... not on ebay, shops,... :P

Because the way you trim and fly helos. An ordinary stick with springs will always return to center. Unless you always keep it in position. An FFB stick will stay off centre when you trim it. Of course, you can mod sticks to be non centering. And some are for sale with this function possible, and that's second best. With FFB the forces are there until you click trim button, and the forces let go. So you have incredible control.

On eBay version here in Norway, I have a saved search that notifies me whenever one is for sale.

 

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And the MSFFB is really the only one who can do this at the moment?

Hehe! Well, there's another thread on this forum of a new Chinese one. I'm sure many of you have seen it. But according to the developer it will only be available in China at the moment, and prise will be around USD 1100 IIRC.

But what's interesting, is a new YT video of a few weeks back, that looks really interesting.

Me? I think I will mod my FFB2 as "hard" as I can, because I want TM and Virpil grips on a long extension.

 

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The increased voltage mod? Haven’t seen that in forever, but I’m ready to try it, and I have good soldering skills. So if I do it, ill let you know:)

 

And OP, it’s even useful for airplanes. It varies the force depending on G or airspeed, a center point that moves with the trim so you can trim just like a real airplane, by holding the stick and trimming until the force is gone. Another way to explain it is the trim moves the stick itself, just like a real control stick would.

 

On modern planes it’s not such a big deal, especially FBW. But the older the thing your flying is the more you can really “feel” through the stick.

 

The MSFFB has issues though, few buttons because it went out of production almost 20 years ago, and lack of force giving you a sloppy center with little feeling.

 

Your X56 is probably just fine for everything as long as you understand the weird way trim works for helos on spring sticks, where you press the trim button and have to move stick back to center to regain control. But it’s there as an option for usually $100 on eBay if you ever feel you want more. Also FFB support varies by company(how much “feedback” it gives you by varying force of the stick), some have just a single force that only Mimicks a regular joystick, but in DCS the majority are really well done

And the MSFFB is really the only one who can do this at the moment?

No, a Swiss one. Bruner or something. USD 1400 IIRC. And the Chinese I mention above.

Cool thing about MS one, is that it was "future" build. They build it better than necessary, so one can make it much stronger (400%?), if you know how to solder, change the motors etc. Hell, you can even mate two of them!

 

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No, a Swiss one. Bruner or something. USD 1400 IIRC. And the Chinese I mention above.

Cool thing about MS one, is that it was "future" build. They build it better than necessary, so one can make it much stronger (400%?), if you know how to solder, change the motors etc. Hell, you can even mate two of them!

 

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I’ve seen the increased voltage, but not changing the motors, you have any links or know where you saw it? If all I have to do is solder same size motors that are more powerful, then hell im in and I’m buying a realsim to mate with it

The increased voltage mod? Haven’t seen that in forever, but I’m ready to try it, and I have good soldering skills. So if I do it, ill let you know:)

 

Snip..

 

The MSFFB has issues though, few buttons because it went out of production almost 20 years ago, and lack of force giving you a sloppy center with little feeling.

 

Snip...

 

Yup. Voltage mod. Different ways. Resistors or another way. Some Dutch dude converted it to a yoke, and he had instructions posted. I studied electronics 25 years ago. Don't remember jack shit after I put my efforts in IT system administration and management. Oh, these regrets....

 

Removal/reduction of sloppiness can be reduced by using timing belts. Extensive work by some people on another WWII forum.

 

I'll see if I can find back to some useful links later.

 

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I’ve seen the increased voltage, but not changing the motors, you have any links or know where you saw it? If all I have to do is solder same size motors that are more powerful, then hell im in and I’m buying a realsim to mate with it

Yeah, I'll check and post when I get home. The ones that mated them turned one "upside down", because the FFB signal goes to all connected devices.

As for sloppiness, I think somebody claimed it was like a firmware induced deadzone. Now if somebody could hack that firmware...

 

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i would like to advise you to rudder pedals.

not a must, but it makes things much more pleasant.

 

Flying helicopters in DCS is absolute fun. You will NEVER regret it.

Hello Passero. Pretty much everything has been said. I hope you already enjoy flying choppers on DCS. RW is a completely different world than the fighters. Flying them requires a lot more concentration and skills usually so choice of controls are extremely important.

It's not impossible to fly with spring centered sticks and a lot of pilots are doing it this way, but it is just less realistic. Now having FFB for simulating the trim is another level in realism but like the non spring centered stick, it is not absolutely vital to fly RW in DCS. Once you get hooked, maybe you want to invest in more realistic controls, but it is a lot more expensive than FW because they are such a niche market.

Among the only 4 helicopters available in DCS (hopefully soon 6), the UH1 is the most common. The FM is not too bad, it is easy to fly and learn since it is a very basic chopper. Excellent for learning but then limited after a while. The 3 other ones are really about your own taste. Attack, lift or scout.

I’ve seen the increased voltage, but not changing the motors, you have any links or know where you saw it? If all I have to do is solder same size motors that are more powerful, then hell im in and I’m buying a realsim to mate with it

 

First of all. Sorry to OP for sort if hijacking this thread.

 

Alright! Found some links. Not sure if changing the motors is in one om them, but I'm sure I've seen it somewhere.

 

Here's the thread about the new Chinese stick.

https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=247100

Also some very cool DYI builds.

 

Video of it

 

Dutch guy modding the FFB2. Comprehensive!!!

I believe he's the one started this. He has a video on YT where he rebuild it as a yoke, link on the page.

http://www.simprojects.nl/ms_siderwinder_ff2_hack.htm

 

Here's a link to the IL-2 forum, where one is using timing belts for his build.

https://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/27099-ms-ffb2-modded-stick-for-you/

 

Hope this gives some encouragement for ideas and modding.

Happy reading!

Cheers!

I've been playing almost nothing but the UH-1 for the last couple of months, I've a HOSAS setup. The right hand is the expensive, fancy VKB stick with lots of buttons and twist for rudder. The other is a Saitek Cyborg X. (They don't make mid-range joysticks like that any more, sadly). It has a split throttle inbuilt into the base, which means I can use it either as a throttle for a twin-jet or, in this case, I use it as the collective control. (Plus there are an extra ten buttons if I really, really need them, which I don't, generally speaking).

 

What I wasn't expecting was that the throttle is rarely played with in the UH-1. I've not tried the other helos, but for the Huey, you just set the throttle to max and leave it there barring certain unique situations. Thus the inability to throttle with a HOTAS throttle as well as use the collective at the same time is not noticed.