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Old 08-31-2019, 05:50 AM   #21
VampireNZ
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Quote:
Originally Posted by macrossMX View Post
...

And also, isn't the side stick configuration provide less of a left turn bias compared to a center stick where it is easier to pull left than right with a center stick.

Yes - the F-16 uses 133% for roll with left higher than right as you say, and 185% for pitch.

So for pitch for example - the max pull is 37 lbs, but the max push is only 20 lbs.
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Old 08-31-2019, 07:26 AM   #22
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Maximum noseup and nosedown pitch commands are generated by 25 and 16 pounds of input, respectively. Roll commands are generated by a maximum of 17 pounds in cruise gains and by 12 pounds in takeoff and landing gains. When using the switches/buttons on the stick, inadvertent
inputs to the FLCS are possible.

Upon landing, at high speed and prior to NLG WOW, forward stick pressure in excess of approximately 2 pounds results in full trailing edge down deflection of the horizontal tails. This horizontal tail deflection reduces wheel braking effectiveness. At high speeds in the three-point attitude, forward stick results in excessive loads on the NLG which can lead to nose tire failure and possibly cause structural failure of the NLG.

During some autopilot mode, Attitude corrections can be initiated through the control stick steering by applying force to the side stick controller. Roll attitude may be changed by exerting a lateral force exceeding 2 pounds. When the new reference attitude is attained, release the side stick controller. To correct pitch attitude, a longitudinal force exceeding 3 pounds shall be applied. To temporarily decouple all autopilot inputs to the control system, depress paddle switch on the side stick controller. Release of the paddle switch reestablishes autopilot hold mode references and the heading command on the HSI.

Rudder pedals, A high-gradient feel spring provides the pilot with artificial rudder feel. A force proportional to the amount of rudder deflection is required on the rudder pedals. The rudder pedal force is 15 pounds at breakout and approximately 110 pounds at maximum deflection.
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Old 08-31-2019, 08:05 AM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ScottyBS View Post
Just watching the cockpit famil video - didn’t realise the F16 was a side stick confit as opposed to centre ... would be interested to hear what the design/ergonomic/hmi benefits of the different configurations are - why is the f18 centre and f16 side? Anybody flown actual aircraft have thoughts on the +/- of them.
Thanks
Scott


So far what I've read through various articles and interviews of pilots who flew the viper, the side-stick configuration of the F-16, combined with its right forearm-armest and the bubble canopy, is called a "wonder in ergonomics".

In combination with the side sticks armrest, a pilot is able to withstand the enormous g-force in a bird like the viper (round about 9 G's) much better and the stick stays controllable more precisely.

After many years of usiing a center stick position at my home cockpit configuration, I even have changed my TM Warthog stick from center position to the right side.

And after a certain time of adaptation (most was just obtaining a new "mind-set" ) I can only come to this verdict:

Even as a stick player it feels more natural; your seat-stance becomes more stable/releaxed. The shoulder-blade gets laid up plain on the seat - in consequence the thorax gets more open and the breath deepens.

I've combined my new configuration with a kind of "armrest", and as a result my stick imputs became more precise - pitch AND roll !

Additional positive side-effect: now I have room for my keyboard in front of me - highly recommended.


All the best.


PS: Because of all these advantages, most (if not all) of todays modern fighter jets offer a right side stick configuration in their cockpits.

Last edited by NevSmith; 08-31-2019 at 08:09 AM.
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Old 08-31-2019, 08:21 AM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NevSmith View Post
Because of all these advantages, most (if not all) of todays modern fighter jets offer a right side stick configuration in their cockpits.
That's more a question of design philosophy than being an actual advantage. E.g. the Typhoon and the Su-57 both have a conventional stick layout.
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Old 08-31-2019, 09:01 AM   #25
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One advantage of center stick is you can hold a position with the left hand while the right one does something else, like fiddle with an MFD, tune a radio or sip a coffee.
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Old 08-31-2019, 09:26 AM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bbrz View Post
That's more a question of design philosophy than being an actual advantage. E.g. the Typhoon and the Su-57 both have a conventional stick layout.
Well, below someone can read quotes from a real Fighter-Pilot who flew both jets, the F/A-18 AND the Viper/F-16:


Quote:
The Viper's side stick and throttle are marvels of ergonomie design.

Quote:
Flying a side-stick control takes a while to get used to, but once you do, it's a joy.

Quote:
The conformal stick's shape feels very natural (it fits in the hand like a melted candy bar), and it allows easy access to nine of the 16 HOTAS controls.

Two fully adjustable forearm rests on the right cockpit bulkhead stabilize and isolate the pilot's arm and wrist, so when rattling around the cockpit during turbulence or going after the bad guy, the pilot's arm won't accidentally move and initiate unwanted control inputs.
source:
http://www.72ndvfw.org/forum/m/5688083/viewthread/20557312-f16-vs-f18-from-pilot-who-drives-both

Last edited by NevSmith; 08-31-2019 at 09:34 AM.
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Old 08-31-2019, 10:23 AM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NevSmith View Post
Well, below someone can read quotes from a real Fighter-Pilot who flew both jets, the F/A-18 AND the Viper/F-16:
Apparently a single pilots opinion doesn't necessarily change a companies design philosophy

The side stick turbulence argument is nonsense since every yoke and stick requires quite a bit of force to be moved for that very reason.

E.g. with a center stick you can fly with either the left or right hand while the other hand operates various other controls.

Last edited by bbrz; 08-31-2019 at 10:44 AM.
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Old 08-31-2019, 11:21 AM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bbrz View Post
E.g. with a center stick you can fly with either the left or right hand while the other hand operates various other controls.
You can't on a fighter though. The throttle is always on the left side.
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Old 08-31-2019, 11:31 AM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nooch View Post
You can't on a fighter though. The throttle is always on the left side.
Do you need to keep the hand on the throttles while e.g. adjusting the nav lights?
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Old 08-31-2019, 11:33 AM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bbrz View Post
Do you need to keep the hand on the throttles while e.g. adjusting the nav lights?
Oh I see what you mean. I shouldn't post when I am this tired
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